AI Talent and the Future of Entertainment: ‘Hot Take’ with Anthony L. Gilardi
Listen to full episode :
In this special ‘Hot Take’ episode of the Switching Two podcast, Heather and Jess bring on Anthony L. Gilardi to delve into the implications of AI in the entertainment industry, particularly focusing on the emergence of AI talent like Tilly Norwood. They discuss the balance between technology and humanity, the challenges actors face in a changing landscape, and the ethical considerations surrounding AI and ownership of likeness. The conversation emphasizes the importance of authenticity in performance and the need for actors to adapt and evolve in response to technological advancements.
About Anthony L. Gilardi
Anthony L. Gilardi is an acting coach who has coached Emmy award-winning actors, talent working on some of the biggest projects around the world for decades, and is the founder of the Anthony Gilardi Acting Studio. Originally from Boston, Anthony is an incredible director, producer, and, of course, an actor himself. (I should also note that Anthony has been my acting coach for years.)
In 2015, he founded the non-profit organization HIPPOLife. HIPPOLife’s mission statement is Healing Through the Arts.
Takeaways
AI is a tool that can enhance creativity but must be used ethically.
The rise of AI actors raises questions about the future of human performers.
Authenticity and humanity in acting are irreplaceable qualities.
Actors must continuously improve to remain relevant in the industry.
The audience plays a crucial role in determining the success of AI in entertainment.
AI's ability to mimic human behavior does not equate to true human experience.
The entertainment industry must establish ethical guidelines for AI usage.
Actors should leverage social media to build their personal brands.
The evolution of technology in entertainment has always faced resistance but ultimately leads to new opportunities.
Understanding one's own humanity is key to competing with AI.
Anthony’s Links
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Heather (00:01)
Heather for Jess. Can you switch to two?
Jess (00:02)
for Jess.
Switching.
Heather (00:05)
Hey Jess, are you here?
Jess (00:06)
I'm here. What's up?
Heather (00:07)
OK, great. I've got some tea to talk to you about, really a hot take. ⁓ You know, yes. So here at Switching 2, for everyone's context, we're going to be doing a series called Hot Takes, where we chat with expert voices in the field about topics in our industry, things that are happening in the news, things that are relevant going on. And I know everyone is talking about, yes, this AI actress, if you can call her that, Tilly Norwood.
Jess (00:13)
I love a hot take.
Timely
Heather (00:32)
So, yes.
Jess (00:32)
It's been all over my feed. And you called
me, Heather called me and she was like, hey, like we, want to talk about this. We need to talk about this. have, I have a lot of big feelings about this. And, and, and so I was like, yeah, yeah.
Heather (00:47)
I
think everyone does right now. And so this is our hot take on AI actress, Tilly Norwood. And we wanted to get into this topic and break it down. And so we thought, who better than to chat about this with then respected acting coach and director, producer, and actor himself, Anthony Gilardi. Anthony is an acting coach having coached Emmy award winning actors, talent on some of the biggest projects around the world for decades.
He is the founder of the Anthony Gilardi Acting Studio. Anthony's originally from Boston, but he's now based here in Los Angeles. He's an incredible, like I said, director, producer, and of course, also an actor. I should also note that Anthony has been my acting coach for probably over a decade now. I've known and worked with Anthony. And then in 2015, he founded the nonprofit organization Hippo Life, and their mission is healing through the arts. Anthony says he coaches artists that are passionate and dedicated to their craft.
Jess (01:25)
you
Heather (01:40)
future of Hollywood is right here right now. It is time for storytellers to lead the next Renaissance. Anthony is so invested always in story and finding the humanity in your acting and so we thought that he would be just an incredible person to chat with about this very timely topic.
Jess (01:59)
Yeah, I'm excited. We're going to be talking about AI. I know that's a very hot button topic right now. To be transparent, our podcast is recorded using AI software. Heather and I both, not to speak for you, but I think we both agree that, have agreed that AI is a great tool and we should know how to use it so that we can continue to evolve and grow.
Heather (02:08)
Yeah.
With great power
comes great responsibility. I think the tools are improving and I think they can really support all of us as artists and creators, but I think it's important we understand the implications, we understand the ethical issues behind it, and also understand how to use these tools and carry them out appropriately. So we get into all of that with Anthony and so much more. So.
Jess (02:25)
Absolutely.
Heather (02:49)
Without further ado, let's jump right in.
Heather (02:51)
Well, hi, Anthony. Thanks for being with us today.
Anthony L. Gilardi (02:52)
So, hello.
That's my pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.
Heather (02:58)
Yeah, well, we are, you know, really interested to dive
our subject matter today, which is talking about Tilly Norwood, what they are calling the first AI actress, which in itself is a controversy because she's not really an actress. She's a computer or she's generated. And but anyway, but, know, so the story it's been around for a bit.
But it really just got legs when Particle Six announced at the Zurich Film Festival the launch of this new AI talent studio and the creator of Tilly from Particle Six, you know, saying that she claimed talent agencies were now circling this actress for representation. And, you know, also came out and said that she's not a replacement for a human being. The actors and industry powerhouses, you know, really from around the globe, had spoken up about this. And so we wanted to
dive into it and talk about it ⁓ with you and your professional background as an acting coach, as a director, as an actor yourself, a producer, you know, and just kind of get some thoughts and feedback. There are a lot of people I know, Duncan Crabtree Ireland was just on the town today, actually talking about more of the legal side and some of those ramifications. So I think we're going to dive more into the human element. What does this mean for performers?
and just creatives in front of and behind the camera. OK. Well, so I mean, my first question for you is, what do you think about all of this? What is your reaction to this news, this idea of this AI actor?
Anthony L. Gilardi (04:18)
Yeah, cool. I'm ready.
this might surprise you Heather. I, I'm not surprised myself and not just because of technology and the way things have been going. I mean, be honest, both of you guys I'm sure have seen this coming to some capacity. It's not brand brand new. but I'm not surprised because we mentioned, humanity.
Right? You said that a few times just in your little, in your introduction. And the reason why, believe it or not, now this might, my view on this might surprise you, believe it or not, the reason why AI does work is because of humanity. Now let me explain what that means. The humans are your audience, right? And...
Whoever, if you're an actor, if you're a singer, dancer, whatever, whatever the performers do, or whoever the performers are, they are a reflection of the audience. And if the audience remains human, then it rarely doesn't matter as much of what the performers are doing. You know what I mean? So if you think about like, you know,
I did some research on Tilly Norwood and of course they're to make her a young, beautiful, sexy woman.
You know what I mean? They'll make her smart when it's suitable to be smart. They'll dumb her down when it's suitable to dumb her down and all that stuff. But what is the difference? They're just modeling humanity. So the audiences, from the audience's perspective, the need to say, I guess, fantasize, without being like crude about this.
will still work for this kind of performer, if you will. Now, are they ever going to replace human beings? I have a view about that that we'll get to in a second. But the reason why it works is the human fantasy of the audience. And as soon as that kicks in,
you have a market for this kind of thing because it's perfection and not in our fantasies. We want perfection and we want it when we want it. so AI is actually more suitable, believe it or not, to create that than human performers are, you know?
Jess (06:44)
The
interesting thing, though, I went and I was listening to the town episode as well, and they were they brought up the uncanny valley because for a long time that was a huge challenge for animators was getting around that uncanny valley. And if you look at Tilly or any of the other A.I. created imagery of people, I think we all still kind of know like that's not a real part. They're not, you know, there's movements.
Anthony L. Gilardi (06:53)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jess (07:13)
and things that they are doing that don't necessarily aren't exactly the way we are. And so we kind of know. then, you know, but it's close enough that it makes you uncomfortable. And the point they made on the town was interesting that they think that that that ability to recognize that is going to kind of. Go away.
Anthony L. Gilardi (07:17)
Yeah. I'm human.
Well...
Heather (07:32)
Go away.
Anthony L. Gilardi (07:32)
I mean, I hate to say this, but
right now the ability to recognize this matters, but AI literally is designed to get better and better and better and better until it perfects itself. It's designed to perfect itself. And the thing that I worry about is human beings are really not designed to perfect themselves. know, we're perfect in imperfections. So I worry a little bit about that. think that I read an article with Sean Astin's
saying that there has to be terms, there has to be rules, they have to disclose. I love that they're calling it synthetic performers ⁓ because you say artificial intelligence, it's almost too much of a compliment because you're saying it's intelligent, more intelligent than humans. synthetic performers, that's like the new word for actors like Tilly Norwood.
Heather (08:06)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony L. Gilardi (08:21)
They're gonna have to regulate that. They're gonna have to know, like the public's gonna have to know when they're watching a synthetic actor or performer, opposed to a human performer. And if they stay true to that, I'm really not.
worried about getting replaced. And when I say me, of course, I'm talking about all of us. You're never going to replace the humanity. You'll come close, especially visually. And it might be entertaining, but it'll just be another form of entertainment, like animation or...
I mean name another genre that isn't you or special effects Things like that, you know, I know that a man can't jump over a building But I'm still looking at it I'm still entertained by that. I'm not getting fooled by my god Wow, this this guy could really jump over a building. What's going on? Why can't I and then all of sudden I wanted you know, like
Jess (09:12)
Yeah.
Heather (09:13)
We want the suspension
of disbelief, yeah.
Anthony L. Gilardi (09:15)
Yeah, yeah,
exactly. And I think that will hold true. And again, as long as the humans, the audience, have these fantasies about perfection and looks and you know what I mean? I mean, just speaking as a man alone.
Right? mean, not to cast aspersions on genders, but there's a reason why she looks like the way she looks, period. I know there's no way that's lost on anybody. And she provides the fantasy. They're going to eat it up. They're going to eat it up. But I do think it'll be temporary. I do think at some point humanity will be missed in the entertainment business and come back. I think that it'll be, well, you're calling this a heartache, right?
The reason why you're calling it a heart take is because it's a heart take and that will cool down, I promise you. Even if they perfect it, it will still cool down, providing that there are terms that they can't, that they have to disclose and everything will go back to, you know, something I'd rather see a human that bleeds, that really cries, that could really move me. I promise you that will come back. I promise you.
Heather (10:22)
Yeah, it's
a novelty right now.
Jess (10:23)
Right, well,
Anthony L. Gilardi (10:24)
Yeah, it's a novelty, that's exactly
right.
Jess (10:26)
and the content they put out is meant to cause this reaction from all of us, right? They want us to react to it. They wanna make it viral. They wanna get it out there. ⁓ part of me wonders, was this a reaction, was there a similar reaction when we went from hand drawing animations to having computers help us with it?
Anthony L. Gilardi (10:31)
Exactly. And that reaction will die down.
Yep, yep, yep.
Yeah,
cave drawings. Yeah, of course.
Heather (10:50)
there was. There was. Yeah.
Jess (10:50)
is, know, is, is
and and it also I don't think and I, you know, take it take take my opinion for what it is and is I don't think that you can truly replace humans because, you know, there's so many films that I think about where the actors improvised the lines, you know, they weren't they went off script or they, you know, and and so much of acting is taking what is on that script.
Anthony L. Gilardi (11:01)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jess (11:18)
and bringing your own experience and your own ideas and your own personality to that character. And I'm not an actor, so correct me if I'm wrong. You two are the experts on this.
Anthony L. Gilardi (11:29)
No, no, let
me tell you something.
You are more of an expert than us because like I said, you're part of the human audience that gets to dictate what matters in the entertainment business. So actually, believe it or not, you are more suited to speak on this matter because at the end of the day, while Heather and I and our peers are confused, my God, what are we going to do? It's rarely going to be up to you, the audience to decide what works and what doesn't work. know, even like producers, yeah, they can save a ton
of money and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, it will not matter. yeah, exactly. And if there's not a market for it, you could save money, but if you're not making money, it doesn't matter if you're saving money, it's all relative. But getting back to what you were saying, it's going to have to be, I'm going to correct you in one thing.
Heather (12:07)
If no one wants to watch it, yeah.
Anthony L. Gilardi (12:25)
You say actors can do this, actors can do that, actors can do this, and you're exactly right, but the word you're leaving out is good actors can do this. Great actors can move us. Elite actors capture our imagination and we become fans of them. So my thing is this, and this is a challenge for all actors, you don't want to be replaced, it's this simple. Get better and don't.
make yourself replaceable. And because if you're replaceable, I'm telling you right now, you will be replaced. So I love that you brought that up, Jess, because that is really honestly what's happening. And I think after the pandemic, at least with my experience, and I want to speak for everybody, humans...
They kind of got lazy in their day-to-day activities. Labor, workers, and stuff like that. And actors kind of got lazy as well. Not all actors, but most of them. And that right there opened the door to something like this. Now, if you want to close the door, you're going to have to step up.
And that is that. That's the message that every actor needs to hear. Period. I don't want to hear any bullshit. If y'all better than AI, AI won't beat you. That's it. That's all there is to it. Now I have... ⁓
Jess (13:45)
What are some practical
ways that people can compete with this or even use this as a tool?
Anthony L. Gilardi (13:55)
Well, if you if you told me six seven years ago that I would be Proud of and bragging about content creators like social media con I would I would say there's no way because I was dead set against it I was really big on actors that earned their way and all that stuff But to be honest with you I was ignorant and and I really didn't know how much work goes into it and what they're really doing So if you really want to think about it
These content creators are creating themselves. They're creating a brand. They're creating something. Now, if you go to Tilly Norwood's Instagram, 50,000 followers, I'm sure that will double, triple, and note you. She'll have millions of followers in no time. She says, am a creation. And that really struck me because...
We are all creation, especially people in this business. So these content creators that have created a brand for themselves, they're really doing the same thing that I guess the technicians that create Tilly Norwood and these other, what do they call them? Synthetic, I love that word, synthetic performers, it's really the same thing. So the playing field is actually more level than we think. So nowadays what
mainstream
actors need to do is to create or maybe even recreate themselves. They're going to have to do that. And I'm really, really glad that it's at this point because a lot of actors get lazy with this and a lot of actors get jaded and a lot, I'm not going out enough, they complain to their agents and managers and then their agents and managers turn around, well, it's really slow right now. Well, I'm too good for this shit.
Those are the actors that are going to be replaced. That's all there is to it. But if an actor really wants it, and if actor is really dedicated, they will figure out a way, just like these technicians are figuring out ways to create AI that could possibly replace human beings. That's their goal. It's like a huge challenge to them. So if the humans turn around and take the challenge and do the same thing, humanity is going to win. Period. Period.
Heather (16:05)
I love that. think too for all different, you know, individuals or creatives in this industry, you bring up so many great points, Anthony, because we all have the power and the tools to create ourselves. Like it is accessible and we're waiting for someone else to do it and they are doing it and this is what they're doing. So if you want to, you know, I feel a lot of frustration from a lot of different.
Anthony L. Gilardi (16:17)
Yeah.
Heather (16:30)
folks in our industry and it's like we have all of the tools we just need to put them to good use and and like you said kind of fight back in a way.
Anthony L. Gilardi (16:35)
Yeah.
One advantage that AI is going to have is fear. They're going to have that advantage over us because 90 % of the time you could say laziness, procrastination and all that stuff. It's all fear. It's all ego. It's all fear. So you're going to take ego and fear out of the equation and they have an advantage over us when it comes down to that. So we're going to have to be brave and we're going to have to be strong. And when I say
We I'm talking about great greatness the elite the ones that are rarely Deserved to be here in the first place. I went on sag. I think it said there's a hundred and sixty thousand Members of says something like that. Did I read that properly? All right
Heather (17:25)
That's about right.
Anthony L. Gilardi (17:26)
How many working how many working actors out of that 160? I don't know seven eight How many actors oh, that's what I'm saying. It's crazy and So now I say why why because I'm guaranteed right now if if the powers that be and the technicians create a hundred and sixty thousand
Heather (17:31)
The percentage is very small. Yes.
Anthony L. Gilardi (17:47)
Tilly Norwood's then there'll be a hundred and sixty thousand working Tilly Norwood's So what is the problem here? So like that that is something that we have to close the gap on You know, it's only gonna take five or six Tilly Norwood's to make people say well I'd rather look at this than that. That's ridiculous. She's pretending to cry and and this is ridiculous You know what? You know what's gonna look worse than AI pretending to cry?
Heather (17:58)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony L. Gilardi (18:15)
Human being pretended to cry that's gonna look worse Hey, thank you. and we'll start saying things like wow, that's close enough. Where was a human being? We're never gonna say that to you. It's not close enough. You suck. That's it
Heather (18:16)
I need to cry because we will accept the AI will say, well, it's like, yeah. And I think there's so many. Yeah. Well, we say that now
we watch a Marvel movie and we say, well, look, I mean, it was pretty good. I mean, I like kind of believed it. Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony L. Gilardi (18:31)
Yeah, yeah for a Marvel movie for that. Yeah, exactly and then and
and and and the budget is is what? 700 million dollars to make that and your audience is saying that's good enough. I That needs to stop. That's the kind of shit that needs to stop if you ask me That's a way bigger threat than something. That's not human. You know what I mean?
Heather (18:47)
Yeah.
Yeah, and the ways in which
we've conditioned ourselves, I I was thinking about today, you know, just filters and AI filters and like a Marvel movie, there's nothing wrong with a Marvel movie, you know, much of the world is generated. So now it's, and maybe the face of one of the...
Anthony L. Gilardi (19:03)
No.
Mm-hmm.
Heather (19:10)
Avengers is also scanned and is also maybe manipulated. so there's a there's a line that's, you know, some what is real and what is not we've just become more accustomed to seeing these types of things and even just, you know, of all going back to airbrushing and photographs and advertisements and things like that. It's like, what is real is we don't have maybe a good perception of that what that should even look like.
Anthony L. Gilardi (19:13)
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Heather (19:39)
You know.
Jess (19:39)
I mean,
this is a conversation. I mean, this has been a conversation for forever. You know, like this is I mean, and they've been, you know, I my background's in photography, Anthony. so, you know, when I was in school and I was taking my photography classes and we were learning about retouching and everything, you know, retouching has been something that people have done forever. It's not just a new Photoshop thing. It's something that we did with film. We did in the dark room. We continue to do today. We continue to have the conversation of.
Anthony L. Gilardi (19:43)
Yeah.
Heather (19:43)
Right.
Anthony L. Gilardi (19:48)
⁓ boy, yeah, yeah, that's great.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jess (20:08)
what's real, what's not, what's acceptable to publish, what's acceptable for people to see, what's acceptable for, you know, because we see hundreds of thousands of images day, right? And so what is okay for our brains to be able to say, to see and be like, okay, that's real. Okay, that's good for my mental health.
Anthony L. Gilardi (20:19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather (20:27)
Yeah.
Anthony L. Gilardi (20:28)
Well, yeah,
and I 100 % agree with you, but I'll take it even further. just touch-ups is one thing, but just wearing makeup or do...
Heather (20:39)
Yeah.
Anthony L. Gilardi (20:39)
Styling
your hair. I mean, I mean that is that not in the same vein as what we're talking about I mean at the end of the day, it's it's it's all manipulation and Do I look this good without my makeup? And if the answer is no then you have just created something that's the same thing that's happening with AI It's the same thing and and you go back to like, okay, so you're talking about Marvel. Let's take it back to the 70s with like ⁓
Star Wars, like the original Star Wars. And Star Wars worked like crazy. And how many humans were there? You know, there was Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan Kenobi. I think they were the only real like, like, you know, humans. Everyone else either had a mask or they were droids, robots, whatever the case may be. But
Jess (21:21)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony L. Gilardi (21:29)
Nobody questioned the humanity of anybody including our 2d 2 was a like a fan favorite Like they were selling merchandising like crazy posters kids had posters not me of course but kids had posters of our 2d 2 on their wall and the reason why was because of humanity that Thing that looks like a like a vacuum cleaner had more humanity than some of the the
Human actors live-action actors around them This is my point doesn't have to be like that that will work But but everyone will say wow are to be choose a cute robot Tilly Norwood's a cute AI synthetic Performer and I love her and and she's funny and all that stuff, but as far as fooling your audience
I just find it hard to believe that we'll ever get to that point that we're fooled to thinking that they're humans. I think that it'll create its own category, like animation or whatever, and that's it. No more, no less.
Heather (22:31)
Yeah, think that there's so many, can go for on and on about all these different avenues because thinking about going back to original animation, you know, like the different artists, the humanity and the artists that are involved with making a creation, it's just the tools they're using. So it was traditional animation, they're drawing from their brain, their imagination, but they're using.
Anthony L. Gilardi (22:51)
rains that they're actually.
Heather (22:52)
a real human model. mean, Disney,
Anthony L. Gilardi (22:54)
Yep.
Heather (22:55)
you know, they're designing Ariel. And so there's a real human model for her. And then compared with another human who's it's her voice. So now you're like building a human, which is just a different way of doing what they're doing now. I mean, I don't know, there's just lots of things to kind of think about in that regard. It's just it's the tools we're using to do it. And like you said, Anthony, no one no one looks at animation and says, that's a real
Anthony L. Gilardi (22:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
Well
Yeah, yeah. And they accept it because they know that it is an imitation of humanity. you know, there's a lot of humanity in the cartoons. When I was growing up with Saturday morning cartoons, Daffy, Doug, Bugs Bunny, they were hilarious because they would...
Heather (23:20)
person, accept it, you know.
Anthony L. Gilardi (23:38)
overemphasized human expression and it was just funny. Whoa, like their eyes would get like this big. That's just funny. And like you said, nobody said, wow, Bugs Bunny is a real person. it was such a non-issue, but they still needed humanity or at least to be able to mimic humanity. I go back to like puppeteering.
like these marionettes, same type of thing. Now, and with AI, I guess you could call like the technicians, puppeteers. And I would like that for, I would like for that to catch on so people understand what these technicians are really, really doing. They are basically just the modern day puppeteers that have created something model. Like you said, Heather, ⁓ a human being, have a head, they have eyes or whatever the case may be.
Heather (24:02)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Anthony L. Gilardi (24:29)
manipulating their movements and and that's it no more no less
Jess (24:34)
if you guys watched the newest Superman. Did you watch? Okay, Heather, did you see it yet? Okay, so spoiler alert, Superman is facing Lex Luthor as he does, he's, Lex Luthor's not on the playing field. Lex Luthor's the puppeteer and Superman is fighting a, you find out towards the end of the film, he's fighting a copy of himself, but it's.
Anthony L. Gilardi (24:37)
I saw the new Super Mario.
Heather (24:40)
I didn't know.
Anthony L. Gilardi (24:46)
Yeah, as he does. Yeah, right. Yep.
Heather (24:47)
Tucker.
Anthony L. Gilardi (24:58)
self-hit.
Jess (24:59)
but it's Lex Luthor who's directing the movements and everything. And I forget what the exact line is, it's like brain versus brawn and Superman and his coffee are evenly matched. for most people, he doesn't realize he's even fighting himself until he remembers his humanity and is like, humanity is always gonna win because...
Anthony L. Gilardi (25:03)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yep.
Jess (25:22)
because we can evolve. We are the ones that are trying to get better. because we're imperfect, we're able to kind of look at that and adjust. And maybe the computers will be able to do that someday. I don't know. But.
Anthony L. Gilardi (25:26)
Yep.
Exactly.
I mean, I personally
think to piggyback off what you're saying, Jess, I think that the more perfect they make this, the less human, the further away they're gonna get from humanity. And you're 100 % correct. I think that the puppeteers' humanity and ego is going to spoil this and they're gonna overdo it.
You just see all the time when human beings try to do something perfect.
Do know one story of it ever working or or this them succeeding? I mean including ourselves like you know what I mean like at some point in your life You're like you've got to say like man. It's exhausting trying to be something better than I was meant to be it's exhausting and and and depressing and all that stuff They're never gonna be able to simulate that never They could probably have it in themselves, and I think that's gonna be the downfall of this whole thing
that you're going to have a lot of new types of problems and new types of depression and all this. The pandemic already brought a lot of different kinds of depression and anxiety, like things that we never even, weren't even, it might have been there before, but not as popular and mainstream as it is now. It's just going to keep on doing that. And that's when humans are going to say, you know, something
I'd rather see somebody if they bang their head, they're actually gonna be hurt. They're actually gonna bleed. I'd rather see that. I'd rather see that. You know, there's more danger in that than, oh wow, a robot just banged his head and who gives a shit?
Jess (27:16)
Yeah, I think ultimately we want to see like authentic people. mean, it like an ebb and it flows. mean, they're like when we were two and I was a teenager, you know, that like retouching and everything was. Crazy. And then, you know, then there was this there was this trend of like, want to see real people. I want to see I want to see real people. Airy.
Heather (27:17)
Yeah.
Anthony L. Gilardi (27:21)
It's never gonna go away, ever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hahaha
Yeah, you see the ads, right? What brand did the ads where it was like, well, there was no,
yeah, yeah.
Jess (27:42)
Yeah,
Heather (27:42)
Yeah.
Jess (27:43)
Ari did the whole like real bodies real people ads and so I think there'll be yeah there there'll be a pendulum shift you know that and that's how we always have been is you know it goes one direction and then it comes back and then
Anthony L. Gilardi (27:46)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stretch marks and bags on the other, you're right, you're right. 100%.
Heather (27:46)
Yeah, yeah.
Sure.
Anthony L. Gilardi (27:59)
is this, and this might be a selfish thing for me because this is the bane of my existence. The only real thing, in my opinion, that is in danger of getting extinct is bad actors. That's the only real danger. And no one's ever going to admit that.
You're a bad actor cause no actors gonna be I'm an actor. Are you good? No, I suck, know, no one's gonna say that but I'm telling you right now You'll start seeing bad actors not being able to make it by luck or a connection or all things that you know, make bad actors I don't even know That's not necessarily a bad thing
Human beings, as down and out as we are in a society at some points and in different time periods, we're the most resilient life forms on the planet and we will bounce back. We'll figure it out. We might be down for a little while and say, my god, this is horrible, but sooner or later we are going to get up. It's in our DNA and the thing that we're fighting against doesn't have DNA.
and there's our advantage. So things that I said that were our disadvantages like our fear and our ego, that will end up like helping us persevere over all of this. Our flaws are going to make us win against the flawless. Does that make sense?
Heather (29:18)
Yeah, what an amazing point. think, you know, what's coming to my mind too, in all of this is to, there have been so many evolutions throughout just our industry alone, but, you know, just with computers and with using new tools, because people don't understand it. And I feel that one of the best things you can do maybe now, and I...
Anthony L. Gilardi (29:35)
Yeah.
Heather (29:39)
would love your opinion, Anthony, is to just, you know, become more knowledgeable about it, like understand how it works and also maybe understand how, you know, you fit in, especially if you're a performer. I know you have some experience, Anthony, with coaching performers who maybe have to work with virtual reality or, you know, digital replicas and things like that. And so how we can kind of arm ourselves and just have skills to understand it and be kind of literate
Anthony L. Gilardi (29:44)
Mm-hmm.
Heather (30:06)
with all of it.
Anthony L. Gilardi (30:07)
Yeah, I think the best way to do that, because I agree with you 100%, is to, and I think this is advice for everybody in the world, whether you're an actor or not, you have to understand humanity because you're a human.
And you have to start with your own humanity. You have to look yourself in the mirror and you have to look internally and figure yourself out. And you might not ever come up with all the answers, you probably won't, but it is that dive into humanity that's going to...
Help you acknowledge what is not human and and and the areas that we have to cut ourselves slack You know what mean areas where it's like, you know, I did my best and and and and and that's it I I wasn't supposed to be perfect and and I'm not so I didn't fail I did my best and I didn't fail and
I think that that's one of the keys to what you're talking about. Going back to what you mentioned, I did direct and coach live action, live actors, I should say, that will eventually create a model for threshold reality or whatever.
And the reason why they hired me in the first place is because they knew there had to be human qualities and what better than somebody that is an expert in human behavior and but we all have to become experts in human behavior and start with your own behavior and it turns into something as simple as why did I just do that? Like why did I do that? Why did I say that? That was like that was crazy. And what's making me say that? Like somebody walks in the room. They make me feel
a certain way. I'm attracted to them. I'm intimidated by them. And now all of a sudden I'm not myself as much. I have a guard up. Why? Why do I have a guard up? What am I doing? And that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about with humanity. AI is never going to be able to do that. Never. They're going to mimic and they'll get better and better at mimicking, but they'll never have that. The adjustments that we make second by second
And that's another thing. They say AI can make adjustments in seconds. Yeah, maybe they can, but I'm telling you right now, humans adjust faster. I don't know what the analytics are with this. I don't fucking know, but I'll be willing to bet anything that a human being could adjust to their situation, mood swings or whatever it is, faster than anything else. I'll guarantee it. And more effective either.
Heather (32:34)
Yeah, no, absolutely. And this, I think brings up so many other things about what SAG is really working for with the No Fakes Act, which is not passed as of, yeah, I believe it's with committee, but these types of things where, okay, then we pivot to, this is happening, we cannot change this, so let's focus on ownership.
Anthony L. Gilardi (32:51)
Yeah. No.
Heather (32:55)
and having control over our own likeness and giving permission and consent, which I know the projects you worked on, that was very much in the forefront. And so it's, think, then shifting our focus to that. How do we make it so everyone's safe and protected and owns their own likeness and the copyright on a character, their person, and all of that? I think we kind of shift to that, which is a whole other thing which we can get into on another day.
Anthony L. Gilardi (32:55)
Mmm.
That's big.
Well, it's unprecedented. It's unprecedented.
We never had to deal with that, but you're right. I'll come back and we could debate that all. Not that we're debating, but we could talk about that. And the problem with that is it's unprecedented. We never had to do something like that. But I'm telling you right now, you hit the nail on the head. That better get done and that better get done efficiently. Otherwise, John Wayne, we're gonna be in a movie with John Wayne.
Heather (33:33)
Yeah.
Anthony L. Gilardi (33:44)
Like, it's just craziness.
Jess (33:46)
You know, this isn't like I, it is unprecedented, but I do think it's not a new conversation because we again, my background's also in journalism. We talk about this a lot. We talk about this a lot. know, if I'm covering a breaking news event, you know, and I photograph somebody and they come around a couple of weeks later and they're like,
Anthony L. Gilardi (33:53)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Nice. Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jess (34:11)
you weren't allowed to take my picture. It gets into the First Amendment, but also people, personally, people should be able to choose if a company is allowed to use their likeness for, in what way, however long, their estate, their family should be able to choose that. But it's also, this is...
Anthony L. Gilardi (34:13)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Jess (34:38)
such a conversation that we should be having because, you know, we should be able to document what's happening out in the world. You know, I very much believe in the First Amendment. We should also be able to protect our likeness. And so this is a conversation that has been happening for a very long time. And I'm glad that we're all having this conversation now because because we should be.
Heather (35:00)
Yeah, it's
Anthony L. Gilardi (35:00)
Well,
Heather (35:00)
going
Anthony L. Gilardi (35:00)
do you-
Heather (35:00)
to look so different for people who are, like you said, I mean, just who are, you know, non-performers who are not in the spotlight. I think it's actually going to be more difficult for them to, you know, protect their likeness because you have someone who's a well-known celebrity or personality, that's going to be easier to protect because that's known. But the, you know, people who aren't in that position, I think it's going to take some parameters to support that.
Anthony L. Gilardi (35:27)
Yeah.
Heather (35:29)
Well, this was fantastic. Thank you so much, Anthony, for joining us today. We're excited to have you back. We'll continue this conversation. We want to hear from you guys. Let us know what you think about this topic and your thoughts and feelings about all that's going on. And Anthony, where can people find you or get in touch with you? And I know you have lots of different avenues to do that.
Anthony L. Gilardi (35:49)
The best way to get in touch with me is through the studio, AnthonyGillardiActingStudio.com and you'll a little bit about what I do, what we do, you have questions for me regarding anything in the business, I mentor actors as well as coach them, which believe it not is two different things. Just hit me up, hit me up.
Heather (36:13)
Fantastic. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time today and we'll see you on the pod again soon.
Jess (36:19)
Thank you.
Heather (36:19)
Alright, that's the show for today, but before we switch back, we want to remind you...
Jess (36:24)
subscribe to the pod, follow us on socials, get on our mailing list. You can stay in touch with us. We want to hear from you. We want to know what you think about this episode, what you think about the conversations we talked about, any questions, comments, concerns, hopes, dreams, quotes of the day.
Heather (36:38)
Let us know,
send us a DM. You can send us a message through our website. We would love to hear
Thanks you guys.
Jess (36:45)
Bye!
Heather (36:46)
Thanks for listening to Switching Two, hosted and edited by Heather Kate Duncan and Jess Boyer. Original music by Topflow courtesy of the Pixabay Royalty Free Music Library, recorded on location in Los Angeles, California. Follow us on social at @SwitchingTwoPod. Show notes and transcripts can be found at SwitchingTwoPod.com.
