Investing in Yourself: Interview with Greg Payton
Listen to full episode :
In this episode of the Switching Two podcast, Heather and Jess chat with filmmaker Greg Payton, who shares his journey from a comic book enthusiast to an Emmy-winning director. He discusses the pivotal moments that inspired him to pursue filmmaking, including the influence of Tim Burton's Batman. Greg reflects on his experiences in film school, the challenges of entering the professional world, and the importance of pre-production in filmmaking. He emphasizes the need for grit and determination in the industry and encourages aspiring filmmakers to invest in their skills and continue learning. The discussion also touches on the blend of creativity and commerce in advertising, the significance of mentorship, and the evolving landscape of filmmaking.
About Greg Payton
Greg Payton is an L.A.-based Emmy-winning Creative from Brooklyn, New York.
He's worked with global advertising agency Havas, learning to usher big ideas from white board to broadcast. Greg took those skills to the Mayor of New York City's Office In Broadcasting, where he helped promote series exploring the city’s tourism, cuisine and lifestyle.
In Los Angeles, Greg worked with Bunim-Murray, executing the digital series, Look Book, displaying the fashion and unique identities in New York, San Francisco and L.A..
Later, Greg helped launch music television network, Revolt T.V., where he earned his first Key Art Award for his work with musician, Gary Clark, Jr..
Most recently, he earned his first Emmy Award having helped launch Spectrum News 1 and Los Angeles Times' series, "LA Times Today", giving a rare glimpse behind the headlines of the award-winning Los Angeles Times newspaper.
Throughout, he’s dedicated his life to collaborating with artists, telling stories, and building brands directing short films and web series, producing sizzle reels and writing original T.V. pilots. and feature films.
Takeaways
Greg's love for comic books inspired his filmmaking career.
The transformative impact of Tim Burton's Batman on Greg's vision.
Early experiences in high school shaped Greg's filmmaking journey.
The importance of mentorship and learning from professionals.
Navigating the challenges of finding work in the arts post-film school.
The blend of creativity and commerce in advertising.
Pre-production is key to efficient filmmaking.
Understanding different roles on set enhances collaboration.
Grit and determination are essential for success in filmmaking.
Investing time in learning new skills is crucial for growth.
Greg’s Links
-
Heather (00:00)
All right. Heather for Jess.
Jess (00:03)
Go for Jess.
Heather (00:05)
Can you switch to two?
Jess (00:07)
Switching.
Heather (00:07)
Hey, I'm Heather.
Jess (00:09)
and I'm Jess.
Heather (00:11)
We're two multi-hyphenate creatives figuring it out in real time.
Jess (00:16)
from on set and in the studio to deadlines, pivots, side hustles, and starting over.
Heather (00:22)
We talk about the messy, brilliant, behind-the-scenes reality of working in production, broadcast, content, and everything in between.
Jess (00:30)
Tune in for fresh tea, hot takes, industry guests, and the occasional chaos.
Heather (00:35)
This is Switching Two, the side channel for creative conversations.
Jess (00:40)
We're glad you're here.
Heather (00:42)
All right, we're on two
Jess (00:44)
Welcome to the episode.
Heather (00:45)
We are talking today with director, writer, editor, Greg Payton. He's an LA-based, Emmy-winning creative, originally from Brooklyn, New York. And he chats with us about his different life experiences. He went to NYU. He then moved to Los Angeles and had all these
amazing different journeys throughout his career and he brings so much to the table. I feel like we could have talked to Greg for hours and hours, we had to cut it short we ⁓ don't want to have a three hour long podcast episode for you guys. But we're really excited. He was able to come on the pod and there's just so much good information. So let's get into it.
Heather (01:31)
Well, Greg, welcome to the pod.
Greg Payton (01:34)
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Jess (01:36)
Thanks for being here.
Heather (01:36)
We're so excited that
you're here. I think we'll start by just having you introduce yourself to everyone.
Greg Payton (01:39)
No, absolutely.
What my name is Greg Payton. I am a director, writer, editor and photographer. Oftentimes I just will choose filmmaker, visual storyteller, whatever I have to be on a given day. But that's what I specialize in. I'm originally from Brooklyn, New York, and I've lived in Los Angeles since 2012. So that would be a little over 13 years now.
Heather (02:05)
Amazing. Okay, so you're from New York. You now live in Los Angeles. But I want to go back to kind of the early days of growing up and sort of how you kind of came into this business. Was there a moment in time for you that really made you want to pursue filmmaking as a career? And, you know, what what were like those early beginnings like for you?
Greg Payton (02:32)
So what made me want to pursue a career in filmmaking initially started with my love for comic books because growing up, that's what I used to read constantly. I used to a lot of Spider-Man and then later on a lot of Batman. And the very first film that I saw in a theater was 1989's Batman directed by Tim Burton.
And it was a film that I would say was for me very transformative in that I had never seen anything done like that before on that scale taken so seriously with as much a specific vision. I think today it may come across a bit pulpy or a bit campy, but compared to what I had known,
about the character of Batman on live action, which was then the Adam West live action series, which was all camping. so to see Tim Burton take a very heavy and serious spin on it just really inspired me to no end And I was on cloud nine from that point on.
Jess (03:48)
I just watched that film for the first time a couple months ago and I just was in awe about, I felt like it was very beautiful for a superhero film. And I feel like that has really inspired a lot of the superhero films we're seeing today. You know, they're shot so cinematically and everything today. like what you're saying, it's almost kind of inspired this next generation of superhero storytelling.
Greg Payton (04:13)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jess (04:14)
So when you saw that film, were you just like, this is it, I have to be in filmmaking? What were your next steps from there?
Greg Payton (04:23)
Well, when I saw the film, my next steps really were I need to work for DC Comics. I need to work for Marvel Comics. And I remember writing letters to both DC and to Marvel Comics and what was great about them, I don't know if they still do it now, but they would send you a form letter. being a kid, you think you're super special. It's like, oh my God, they sent this to me and stuff.
Um, so I remember getting this form letter in the mail from Marvel and from DC. I never heard back from. DC at that time, but I did hear about from. And it was a, it was a very nice letter, a very cordial letter. I was only about.
I think 11 or 12 at the time. So there was no way they were gonna even bring me on in turn because, know, child labor laws are a thing. And so, you know, my hopes were dashed, but I still continued to draw my own comic books and write my own comic books. And it wasn't until I got to high school where I am a dear friend of mine, you know, we are still friends today.
And I always bust her chops because when she and I met, we would compare drawings. And the moment I saw hers, my immediate thought was, oh, I should go into filmmaking instead. Because her work blew mine out of the water without effort. And that is the kind of work that I wanted to aspire to, but I also realized.
I wanted to bring it to life. And just because of that meaning and that relationship made me realize, okay, I really want to try and do this. And then it became a situation where in high school, I began borrowing my school's camera equipment so often that whenever there was something happening, they would often call me.
and not the person who runs the actual equipment cage because more often than not, I would have the gear in my apartment somewhere, even though I had no business taking it home with me, but that's how often I would be using it.
Heather (06:42)
That's so cool. I love that. Just being like relentless in the thing and just having it feels like you had this, I don't know, this desire like to make something and you were just, you were, you know, you were sort of just itching, like whether it was through drawing or through filming things and just creating like that was very much inside you and you kind of felt the need to, you know, have that creative process from an early age.
Greg Payton (07:07)
No, I'm very, I'm very thankful that despite everyone's frustrations trying to track me down back in high school about not having a school property, I was very happy that I went to the high school I did. It was Robin F. Wagner Secondary School. When I was there as the Institute of Foreign Technology, they're over in Long Island City, Queens.
And it used to be the Macy's warehouse, but they converted it to an actual high school. so overall, the philosophy fostered creativity and fostered thinking outside the box. So think overall, the idea wasn't to, ⁓ to snuff out someone's ambition, but to just keep an eye on it, you know, just watch it.
Heather (07:55)
What were you making? Like, were you doing stop motion? Were you just going around filming anything that you could? Was it like docu-style? Were you getting friends or siblings or something and like making scenes or what kind of stuff were you filming?
Greg Payton (08:12)
Well, interestingly enough, you know, just because of just budget cuts and lack of funding, you know, we had a formal arts class and we had an art history class and was super interactive and I was super inspired by it. But when it came to filmmaking and video production, there just wasn't enough money in that budget. But I did have the opportunity to have a lot of mentors come in and out through what they call studios programs and those studios programs.
essentially allowed the professionals to kind of come back and to kind of express what they know. So we had a lot of informal teaching by lot of professionals. One brother, he goes by Eternal and he is someone who, you I've known for almost 30 years now and he's doing great things and making great documentaries and great series and his passion and his discipline
really rubbed off on me and I was just bowled over by just how driven he is. And whenever he and I talk, he always leads me with a bit of advice, whether or not he means to give it, whether or not I asked for it or not, he always leads me with something. And so I took that to heart. And when it came to wanting to learn more and to do more, I applied to this program.
that I didn't know about before, but it was my senior year and I was kind of organizing senior activities like you do for your class. I remember my principal had this individual next to her who looked like they could be in high school, but it turns out he was a professor at NYU Tisch and he was running the editing component of this program called Teacher Filmmakers Workshop.
And, you know, he, he pitched the program to a class of us. And I applied and. You know, once I step foot on and why use campus. At 721 Broadway, it was. It was definitely being hooked like a drug and knew. One way or another, I had to go here, so I did the high school program. I was able to.
The three projects and express a lot of what I had going on at this time. And fortunately, got into the university full time. of an undergrad.
Jess (10:33)
Congratulations, and that campus is so, just walking on it is so inspirational.
So what degree, what did you, when you went to NYU, what degree did you get?
Greg Payton (10:51)
So, I was sitting when you, the degree that I got was a bachelor in finance and it was in. It was an undergraduate from a television with a specialization in television.
Heather (11:03)
Very cool. It's okay. Good.
Jess (11:03)
And how do you, sorry, go ahead Heather.
That's all you girl.
Heather (11:07)
okay. I want to know like what I mean that that was I think such an important thing that you wanted to just kind of get into a little bit but having a sort of exposure like at an early age and understanding what possibilities are out there I think is super important to you know for you to be in a place where you could see ⁓ okay I remember the first time I think I was in junior high school I
Greg Payton (11:18)
. .
Heather (11:37)
learned about like film school and that you could go to film school and that there was this thing called a producer and I was like that sounds cool you know
so just like the importance of just making those ideas accessible to young people so that they see the pathway and it sort of forms for them but I was just curious like was there something you were drawn to specifically
did you know that you wanted to be a director or were you still kind of figuring that out at the time?
Greg Payton (12:09)
So when I went to film school, it really was just opening a new world to me. And, you know, we're talking, you know, 2000, 2001. So this was just before the internet took off. You know, this was just before cell phones could do anything.
This was before social media. So, you know, ⁓ not knowing really anything about what filmmaking, you know, was other than just the things you look up in the library, right? So when I got to Tish, I was just wanting to throw myself into everything and wanting to be behind the camera, understand sound, understand what the crew's doing, have an appreciation.
And the respect for what those different departments did and. I think I organically just. Gravitated towards the writing. The directing and a lot of these with photography and the editing. I think.
One of the skills that I happened to work on a lot was the skill of editing. It's because it was something that required, and still requires, a world of patience. Because when you're telling a story, particularly in the film making, there's the story you write, and that's the story you shoot. But then once you do that, there's a story you gotta put together.
And then oftentimes, you know, you may find that the story you put together in that edit, it can closely resemble what you wrote or not. You may discover the different inspiration of different things that feel very different.
Heather (14:00)
That's so cool. Yeah, that's so true. it's, you know, discovering it throughout each of the different processes, it brings out something else and you're able to through the medium kind of be like, discovering new things as you go and it, you know, everybody's kind of molding and shaping this piece of work ⁓ until you get to the finished product. And many times when you're an independent filmmaker, you're doing a lot of those steps yourself.
Greg Payton (14:11)
. .
Heather (14:26)
⁓ which is an interesting thing, I think, as well, just to be the one who has to cut the scene that you work so hard
and it's your favorite scene and you love it, but if it doesn't serve the story, it's gotta go, you know?
Jess (14:42)
No, no, no, you were good. I really love the question that you asked. I didn't... I love that question.
Heather (14:47)
It's just kind of,
Jess (14:52)
I mean, as you were talking about that, it reminded me I started I was more on the broadcast side of things, but I started in my junior high school and then high school AV programs. And one thing that was really helpful, I think for us was, you know, everybody does want to be a producer or a director or an anchor, you know, and our teacher.
Greg Payton (14:52)
Thank you. Okay.
Heather (14:51)
Mm-hmm.
Jess (15:14)
was really good about saying, OK, we're rotating jobs. You are a sound mixer today. You are the technical producer today. You're post-production. You're graphics. And being able to give people the opportunity to jump around in different roles and see what's going to work best for them is really helpful and helps make it more accessible.
Greg Payton (15:18)
Yep.
That's right. Absolutely right.
⁓ I, I definitely, ⁓ give all the props and praise to the, to the process of rotation. Just because I think if you are siloed into just doing one thing, sure, you will master that one thing. But the concern is, do you have an appreciation for the amount of work and the amount of time that, goes into before you step on set? Because oftentimes if you are the director,
And if you have the privilege of being the director, you are often never the first person on set, unless you're someone like, someone like Spike Lee, who is known for showing up on sets hours before the day begins, just to get in the zone. But overall, there are armies of crews that show up before you. There are armies of crews that stay after you. So it's important to understand and appreciate those crews and what they do.
so that you really appreciate everyone's time.
Jess (16:40)
Yeah, I think that's a really good skill of being, you know, a really important skill of being a good leader is understanding who is on your crew, what their day looks like, what their job looks like, how you can best support each other. mean, empathy goes a long way.
Heather (16:40)
Yeah.
Greg Payton (16:55)
So when it comes to, you know, wearing different hats on a production or just doing that as a career, yes, you do a run the risk of
spreading yourself too thin or not really giving yourself time to dedicate to the mastery of that one thing. Absolutely. There is a craft and then there's business. so it's trying to find that balance between art and commerce. Because commerce dictates that you are a one-person army. You know, you're a Swiss army knife. And that's a lot about what the world has become now.
You know, can we get it all in one? Can we shoot, edit, deliver all from your phone? You know, can this one person do it all? And in many cases, depending upon what it is, the answer has become yes. For example, there was a film that came out last year, or even this year, I can't recall exactly, but it was called Rebel Ridge. And this film was one that was a ⁓
written, directed, edited by the same person, you know? And so that is an example of, and I believe this director also shot it. have to double check, you can double check. this film, Rebel Ridge, was an incredible, very lo-fi, very intimate film. Almost has like a very like small town Rambo sort of vibe, but with a very modern flair to it. And
It was so well done and was an example of, you can wear several hats. And here's an example of how you do that. By the same time, there is much to be said for really just focusing on just that one thing and just that one skill and bringing in people who are the masters of what they do. So when I'm turning to another editor,
I know they're the master of their craft and I know that automatically they're thinking about something I'm not or a story strategy that I'm not. San Diego, a Islamographer. They're thinking about lens choices and lighting choices and setups that I may not be. So I consult with them. That is very important because I may be thinking about something one way, but then they can come with a whole different vision and really expand upon what we're doing.
Heather (19:17)
Yeah, for sure. mean, surrounding yourself with collaborators who bring something to the table and will challenge you. You don't want to be the director where your DP just says yes to everything. You know, you want to bring in people who are going to it's kind of like, I don't know, I got the vision of like making a sculpture and everybody's kind of chipping away at it to make the thing and we're uncovering what that is through the process. So that's like a really good point of just surrounding yourself with
different creatives and bringing on people who, yeah, know the thing better than you know the thing. And so you can all work together, because I think we've said this before, but filmmaking is not done alone. You know?
Greg Payton (19:56)
Yeah, I
mean, I think it's a funny, it's a weird thing because it's like, um, you know, uh, it kind of has to be approached very much like improv where it's a yes and, you know, not, not, not so much. Or, but yes. And, know, what, you know, get this and something else. And I think through the process of elimination, you begin to filter out.
what is going to work better than something else, you know, for a shot, for a scene, for the film. And so, if you're able to approach it with respect and love for everyone's opinion, then it's not so much a question of, I have to shoot this idea down, I have to shoot that down, shoot that down. It's not that at all. It's, I like that, and I like that. Which one?
Do we like the most? Which one do we like more? What can we afford? What can we do? Which one's safer? Which one do we, know, which one do we have time for and so on and so.
Jess (20:56)
Absolutely.
Heather (20:59)
Yeah, no, that's so interesting. It's just about and being a director too, think you get when I'm directing, I get hit with ideas all day long. And there's also something to be said for like, what do you take in? Because it can be overwhelming and everyone's idea is great. But then to your point, Greg, like thinking about the business side of it and being like, okay, what do we have time for? That's great in theory. But in practice, I got to make my day, you know, so it's also like the role of the director is to
take it all in and then you make the choice of what's gonna serve the story or the project or not, you know.
Greg Payton (21:34)
Not really. Not really. No, you have to, you have to be patient enough to listen and to take everything in.
Heather (21:36)
Mm-hmm.
Greg Payton (21:44)
to know when someone may have a better way of getting to something, way of accomplishing something, and also having enough of a filter to understand, damn, that's dope, that is great. I wanna do that, we can't do it for this one, no. Not because I don't think it's dope, but because we have X amount of time in this space, we got a clock sunset, we got a clock sunrise.
Or the client wants this. I know we want this, but the client's going to kill it. Let's save that for the next one.
Heather (22:21)
Yeah, there's a lot of processing that happens in short periods of time when you're on a set. ⁓
Jess (22:27)
I'm thinking back
to a set that Heather and I were on recently and we were having the same thing of Heather was the director and I was doing some unit stills and we're like, well, we can do this, we can do that, we can do this. But it's like, okay, we have time and we, know, what can we do in the space? What can we do within our time? You know, you're making all these decisions, but you're also trying to be creative and also make the client happy and, you know, also be proud of the work that you're making.
Greg Payton (22:43)
That's right. That's right.
Especially.
Heather (22:52)
⁓ It's a lot to juggle. It's like you have to be humble and also confident in your vision and
clear in your vision, but also like humble and adaptable enough to bring in different things. So it's definitely a balancing act. But going off of you talking about the client, I believe that you started in advertising, Greg. So I wanna talk about this. I wanna talk about the jump from going to film school, you go to Tisch School of the Arts, which is so cool.
Greg Payton (23:01)
Thank
Heather (23:18)
and you study filmmaking and then you make a jump into the professional world and what that looked like for you and what was your sort of pathway from there.
Greg Payton (23:28)
So much has changed between when I graduated from film school and others graduated from film school now and some of you choose to not even go to film school. It's because of the exorbitant expense. But I know that from my experience then, know, oftentimes those who graduated back then, this was back in 2005, you know,
It was challenging to find work. mean, we're talking about a professional career in the arts. So it was hard to find something that can pay you, you know, to do anything remotely close to what you went to school for. And the one thing you learn pretty quickly is that the working world, not that they don't care where you went to school, because they don't have time. It's like, we have these needs.
Where you went to school was great, but can you do what we need and? You know going into advertising it was with a small production boutique home that worked for a larger ad agency so What it did was it gave me the opportunity to see? how that Meld of commerce are in commerce and really took place You're having to tell stories
Jess (24:21)
Mm-hmm.
Greg Payton (24:48)
Over the course of five ten fifteen thirty Your one-minute commercials, so you're to tell all these stories and sell of product and really be efficient and meticulous about every frame and We're talking about Super Bowl campaigns. We're talking about pharmaceuticals. We're talking about cars You know and when I came into it, I just was just wet behind the ears that no
what for what, and so I started off just being a QC or quality control. And my job was to watch down the commercials, make sure is there a problem? Is there a hit? Is it out of sync? And that there gives you a skill of catching things and having like a sharp eagle eye. My job was also to do the conversions of making files and DVDs and tapes.
You know, back when you had to do that, you had to make different types of tapes and different delivery formats before things just became a digital delivery service. You know, there was one point where we had to offload, you know, 20 VHSs all at once to go to the distributors because that's all they can take. Or, you know, a number of different duty betas. You know, the high definition was brand brand new. So no one knew what, so we had three different
high definition decks from three different brands to make it work. So, my teeth there taught me a lot about responsibility, about organization, about clientele, about working with clientele, but also looking out for your people because a client in the middle of a room or recession can ask for a million different things, but if you're one person having to make those million different things happen,
You can't both speak to them and do what you have to do. So I developed a skill for really conversing with the client to sort of allow who at the time, you know, were my editors at the time. Do what they had to do. You know, they would make the client changes while I would converse with the client about the campaign or.
How long was this shoot? Where was this shoot? Who did you work with? Are you going to work with them again? You know, all these different things that sort of allowed them to talk more about the process, talk more about the brand. So it made them feel good. But it also allowed my editor to do their job without going crazy and getting stressed out because it is very stressful being that one person on a console, have a room full of accountants and executives and what have you.
said, hey, can you do this and can you move that and move that back there? I can't move that frame. What about that guy's hat? Oh, I want the way you watch. Oh, can you do different takes? What do we have there? I want the way he says that. And it's just, you know, all those different things will drive you insane unless you have someone there to help facilitate that. So I think I was unique in the fact that I had no problem conversing with people, you know, and I thank my parents for that, my parents.
would often take me around a lot of their friends at their job. So I got used to conversing with adults, even though I wasn't one myself, but I got used to, you know, just having decorum, having respect, caring yourself with respect, and just knowing that when you're in a professional environment, knowing that you have your objective, and everyone wants to say things, it's just how they go about getting it. And oftentimes, a client may not know that what they're asking
probably is doable, but that and other 10 things you've asked still have to get done. And they can't happen at the same time if the person doing it is talking to you and trying to do it. So I filled that role very often. Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it wasn't just learning how to
Jess (28:41)
Yeah, those client management soft skills, interpersonal skills are just so important and so underrated.
Heather (28:47)
Yeah, and it's something.
Greg Payton (28:54)
lay down footage or organized footage or prep footage for finishing. But for me, it really was learning how to speak to clients and to speak to them on their level. And even though I didn't know the nuts and bolts of what their day to day was, I knew this commercial. I knew it went into this commercial and I know this world. So I would converse about that.
Heather (29:16)
There's definitely an art form in that. And like what we had talked about before, you have to learn how to communicate. You want to be in this business with all these different kind of subsets of people. So if you're a director, you have to communicate with your crew effectively. You have to communicate with the actors who are kind of on this different. There might be the studio. Or if you're in advertising, you're answering to the advertising agency who
has a creative director and then you're also answering to the brand, which a lot of times now they have, you know, a creative director on their side. And so, you know, there's it's the same type thing you're taking in all this information and you're trying to kind of have different communication styles to work with all these different groups of people. working in office admin role,
Greg Payton (29:42)
. .
Heather (30:04)
I think is super helpful for that even for
young people coming into this industry or people just coming in, you know, to these types of careers. you know, learning how to talk to people on the phone, talk to customers face to face, it will just help you a lot.
Greg Payton (30:20)
Absolutely, because, you know, they want to know that you have their best interests at heart. You know, they know that they don't know what they don't know. You know, in some cases they may pretend to, in which cases you kind of have to go along with it and kind of understand, well, it's not quite like that, or it's more like this. kind of just massage your way into it. But, you know, it's...
There have been a number of situations where it was very important to be a good co-pilot, as it were.
Jess (30:56)
So you're at this advertising agency, you're getting your feet into the water. What was kind of the next step from there for you in your career?
Greg Payton (31:06)
Well, after that, it was, you know, a juncture of, you know, making a transition, you know, throughout all that I had been teaching on the weekends, you know, the same program that I was a part of in high school. had gone back and facilitated and become an editing TA and an instructor. So, you know, I continued doing that and I spent some time teaching in Dublin, new, um, had to just program and, um, coming back.
I made the decision to make the move to Los Angeles. so around before that, actually going to LA, it was leaving advertising to work for the mayor's office. And then, so working for the mayor's office, I got to apply all of that advertising knowledge in terms of packaging, commercials and spots for hosts of very
Arts and culture in New York Centric shows. Remember working on shows like 999 Mind you this is 2010. So it was all the different things that you can do in New York for under 10 bucks Now I think the show would probably call it 1999 but you know that thanks for the place
Jess (32:18)
You
Greg Payton (32:20)
Um, then, you know, shows like secrets of New York and, and that was a great feeling because I got to step into my own and work one-on-one with talent for the first time. And I, I can still reach out to some of those hosts today because it was such a, it was such a great guy. was a great experience. And, um, you know, I still follow with that, with that arm of, of New York city life does.
⁓ But after that, I moved on to LA and sort of working in digital for Ben and Murray, where they had a digital series about fashion, about street fashion. And that was incredible because they had shot all of this, you know, person on the street fashion laws about what are you wearing, what's your style, how's it influenced, and coming up on the spot with a way to visually execute that. was called Lookbook. And we did episodes in New York.
San Francisco and LA. And it was so fast paced and I also I wish it was longer because I wanted to enjoy it more. But we knocked out 30 or so episodes and it was just really, really fun. It really gave me just a breath of fresh air and sort of like getting my feet wet in terms of Los Angeles and San Francisco. And just seeing
That's how fast-paced that way of production can be sometimes when you're not given the budget or time to really stretch out. It's gotta fit this timeframe.
Heather (33:58)
What did that do? I mean, what do you think that you like learned from that or what did that teach you on any thoughts on how to be better at that? I think that's a huge trend right now where it's like things have to be quick and you have to get on trends, especially if you're trying to make content or skits or things like that. And you just have to be fast about it. What are your thoughts on maybe some tips for that?
Greg Payton (34:24)
Excuse me.
I think my tips on being fast often goes back to ironically being slow. And I say being slow and that the one thing that you have time to do that costs you no money is pre-production.
And the more time you can dedicate towards your pre-production and knowing what the vision is and what you want to accomplish and how long you want something to be and the consistency of the questions and what you're trying to grasp and the specific B-roll that you want to get, I think as long as you are specific in that, then that makes your edit that much faster.
What also makes it faster is organization. Being organized is something that I think a lot of people take for granted. I think because we're in an era of, yeah, we can just shoot everything and throw in the edit and throw in the timeline and just go. I'm like, well, yes, you can do that. Or you can take the time and really organize who is this? Where, what are we talking about? And while that does take time and while we do have
a lot of automated tools to help in our process, which I'm very thankful for. You know, that process is important because once you do that process, then the process of putting it all together is so much faster because when, when your EP or your client asks, Hey, um, I remember asking so and so about so and so like, Oh yes, right here. Or, Oh, you know, I feel like we shot. know. Did we shoot that? Oh yes, right there. You know, or no, we didn't shoot that, but we did shoot this.
You know, we did, you know, so, so taking that kind of time costs you nothing, you know, but it gains you everything and it makes you doubt much faster. And, you know, over time and other jobs, I've learned the beauty and sometimes the pain of having to, to be done even though it's not perfect.
Jess (36:30)
Yeah, knowing when to say, right, this is, we're going, this is what it is. It's going forward. We can't, yeah. And then on top of that, I mean, I feel like when you're speaking about organization, you're also speaking about research and taking the time to kind of understand, understand the client, understand the project, understand, you know, the budget, the timeframe, everything that's part of it. You know, you're not showing up to a session.
Greg Payton (36:35)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jess (36:57)
a review session cold, like you know what was shot, know what's in the edit, what's available.
Heather (37:04)
Yeah, I think that's the thing that's with all of the I don't know the social content or things feeling like they're so organic. And everybody's making content. I think there's this done like a slight disservice in just that people think that there is no planning that goes into it. It's so off the cuff because a lot of the content is designed to look that way. It's designed to feel improvised and just you know,
Greg Payton (37:05)
Absolutely.
Heather (37:29)
so fresh and everything, but there is a lot that goes behind it, the prep work and the planning so that even if you, which allows you to make this sandbox that you can be spontaneous in, when you're actually filming. But yeah, that's a great call out for sure that I think people overlook.
Greg Payton (37:47)
Absolutely.
Absolutely not. It takes a lot of work to make something seem improvised. It's a lot of work to make something seem off the cuff. That authenticity is always what you strive for. Whether it's a full-on feature film or social media posts, people still want that human connection.
So it's our job to make sure that whatever the screen is, that we're able to deliver the authenticity. It's just knowing your medium, knowing your frame, and delivering it that way.
Heather (38:30)
Yeah, for sure. There's so much more prep work that goes in to things that I think people realize. And again, like you said, that's the goal. We want it to look like it was just it just happened. But I think, you know, we talked to a lot of people who are early in their careers and it takes time to to prep to build that inventory to, you know, gain all of those intangible skills that we're talking about that really will help you.
along the way and just make things so much easier and you, you know, don't even think about it because you just know it and you do it. having those soft skills in your pocket are really going to serve you.
Greg Payton (39:08)
And there's a muscle memory that you develop over time when you do something a number of times. There's this thought that a lot of times what you do seems so easy, so many people may think that you're not doing a lot. And it's misnomer because you've been doing it so long that it looks easy, but it looks easy because you've been doing it so long.
And at that time, there's a reason why I'm bald. There's a reason why, you know, it's like a lot of hours just hair pulling and just not knowing what to do with all the sleepless nights. So once you go through that and once you come to the other side of that, in some cases you do end up on the other side very much affected and changed and learned.
about what that process was and it informs you as to whether you want to do that again, do that differently, improve upon it, bring in other people, you know, it really has an eye-opening effect.
Heather (40:21)
Yeah, for sure.
Jess (40:21)
What's one of those
things, I mean, this industry requires so much grit and perseverance and you're touching on that a little bit. And I'm just wondering for you, what's the one thing that keeps you going? Like what, you know, at the end of a project and you look back, how are you like, yep, I'm ready. I want to do the next one. Like what is it for you?
Greg Payton (40:36)
Cough
What makes me want to do the next project or keeps me coming back is, not to sound cliche, but it is asking myself, do I love this? Do I love this enough? Can I put enough love into this to make a difference? And if I feel like I can, then sign me up. If I feel like someone else could do it better, I have no problem saying that. I have zero problem saying that.
It was one thing when I was in my 20s and you eager and yeah, you said yes to everything, you know, year of yes, yes, yes, yes, take this on, take that on, right? But then you find yourself in situations where for better or for worse, you you learn some hard lessons. And I've definitely had my fair share of them where, you know, you walk away with an experience that is educational, sometimes painful.
but you still did the work and you still gain skills that you can apply to the next thing. And so, you know, when it comes to, you know, a grit or determination, you know, lot of it is, you know, just doing the self-check, right? Really, like really checking with yourself and taking care of yourself and asking yourself, do you feel up to this? And oftentimes you may not have a...
Definitive answer may just be a dot dot dot. Let's see how this goes And you just keep checking out with yourself and make sure you're right for it. I to love is still there, you know What I did that a series for from but a Murray true story Right when I arrived in LA, I didn't arrive with my job You know, there was a job prospect but without going into it
It went up in smoke. And so I was left trying to figure out, okay, well, I'm here. What do I do? So I was hustling on one side for gigs, but also having to just make rent. And I remember doing a brief sense at a pizzeria that was down the block for me. And they had just opened up. And so was like, all right, well, this is what it is. And so I took that job and I was there for about four or five months before I've a Mary happen.
during that time at the pizzeria, I had several cuts on my hands, almost took the tip of my finger off, all the while just trying to make ends meet. And on the week that I began working on that digital series with Bonna Murray, I had a bunch of bandages on my hands. in the kitchen, working in the kitchen, oftentimes we have a certain cut.
that you have to wrap up will have these like finger, I guess, finger condoms that you put on to protect your finger from getting wet or the injury from getting wet. And so I remember essentially just editing with like four different like finger condoms on. And the EP is like, what happened to your hand? I was like, just a different job accident. And ⁓ it was just...
You don't forget the experience of the odd pain that comes from making a mouse click right where you almost slither your finger. So, you know, I figure if I can do that, then, you know, I think I have that under control. can do a lot of other things as well.
Heather (44:04)
that story because I think it, it like sort of speaks to the bigger picture of just taking all these experiences with you, you know, like the, the way that we start down a path and, know, oh, okay, we have to pivot because this, this isn't the way for me anymore. It's not serving you. But yet you still take all those experiences with you and they just shape you into who you are as a creator and
Jess (44:04)
And you have.
Heather (44:34)
So it just, none of it I think is lost in my opinion, you know?
Greg Payton (44:39)
Not one bit.
Heather (44:41)
bringing this conversation into what so much of us are in this industry are experiencing today is like things are changing and we have to be able to pivot. I know you've talked about that Greg before just.
pivoting in the way you work and the way you work with other people, maybe how you see yourself doing a specific thing or changing what you see yourself doing, but also in just technically being able to stay adaptable, you know, and so I'm just saying like this adaptable pivoting theme, not being so rigid.
Greg Payton (45:17)
Yeah, I've always loved technology, first and foremost. If you give me the opportunity to learn about technology, I'll always take it. And so when it came to that, I think that's part of the reason why the filmmaking process
is so provocative. It's an obsession because I love optics. I love camera technologies. I love innovations. I love different softwares that make the job more streamlined, that save people's time so they can go home to their families and just in their lives. So in terms of pivoting, I have
You know, had the opportunity and the privilege to learn several different software to accomplish the same goal. You know, ⁓ coming up, I learned what was in Fonker Pro, you know, back then, and it was a brand new software from Apple. And it was a great software and it was kind of the cheaper alternative to Avid, which was back then was far too expensive and exorbitant for a high school student or a college student to use.
And even before then, when I couldn't afford Final Cut Pro, I remember buying just like third party, off the shelf, AV editor softwares that I needed to do for a project. when I couldn't export the edit to tape, I remember just putting the camera from my computer screen and putting the speaker on top of the camera mic.
to get the audio so that I can get the recording of the capture or the edit that I did. So at least there's that. So I love pivoting in that sense. So when we're talking about different cameras and software, they're all just tools to get to the same place, right? But oftentimes, because of the industry changes and the transitions and the shifts,
Oftentimes you're really pushed into learning those different things, which some people can be very recalcitrant of getting into. And that's where I would often come in. And, you know, again, just bouncing back to my first job at college, I remember teaching a whole bunch of senior editors how to learn front-end control because at that time many agencies were shooting on this new thing called the red camera. And no one knew what the red camera was and it was like.
They're shooting to a card. We're not shooting film. We're not shooting on tape. No, we're shooting to a card. Well, what are you shooting? Oh, red code. What's red code? I don't know. Who can see it? We have no idea. And so being at the beginning of these different things was a unique experience because that told me, oh, you're at the beginning of all this. And it's going to keep happening. And it's been true to form with everything in my life where when
know, after learning out of it, then it's probably kind of fell out of favor because they changed their software. Then people began using Premiere, so learned Premiere. And then over the years, I began to see a software come up that I remember, again, back in advertising, I used to see a lot of colorists use when they were doing the color correcting for the commercials, and that was DaVinci. Then all of a sudden I heard, oh, Blackmagic, oh, the computer mix, capture cards and cameras.
They bought DaVinci, why? And so they built it out into a whole new editor and stuff like that. And so, you know, that got my attention to learn that. So that's the journey that I'm on now. And just mastering DaVinci just because A, I like learning new things and B, just because there's gonna come a time when you're going to need that skill and there is nothing wrong with knowing how to do the same thing with different software.
because now I can cut across at least three and do the same thing.
Heather (49:21)
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Jess (49:21)
Well, it makes you a more
versatile person, right? It makes you more hireable. makes you, you know, it's just all around great to continue learning and continue being curious about different tools and skills that you can have. Is there any, if one of our listeners is wondering right now, if they're, you know, what's one skill you think that they should take away from this episode, what would you say?
Greg Payton (49:45)
I think that the great thing about now and this year of 2025, super fast internet, can download, watch, research and learn anything about anything online. So the resources are already there. And I think that
The greatest thing someone can do for themselves is to just invest that time in themselves. You know, I think that for a lot of people, you know, I was only able to attend college on scholarship. Scholarships, loans, and grants. You know, my family did not come from much of any money at all. So that was the only way I was able to attend college. And now it's so much more expensive. And... ⁓
It can be very discouraging from people who can't afford to make rent, to make a car note much less before college. So for doing this kind of work, is an equity gap, and it's a very wide equity gap that cuts across gender and that cuts across different socioeconomic ethnic backgrounds. So I think the one equalizer is
Using things, using the Internet to even that playing field and invest in that time. Into the softwares that can teach you how to how to be better. You know, while not going broke while doing it, you know, there are great resources like. Various places where you can rent lenses, camera equipment, equipment online.
I've used places like Lensrentals tools all the time just to learn and just to experiment with different gear without having to drop nine, 10, $11,000 in a piece of kit. It's just dropping 50, 60, a couple hundred here to really learn and invest that time so that when you go onto a set, you can be helpful, you can be an asset or that really you shouldn't understand.
You know that even if you are a director, can understand well why you know, you know, we do the camera and the whole body. Yeah, because this is the body. If you do this wrong, you'll block the SDI port and you have no camera at all, you know. So I would say, long story short, I would say just invest the time in yourself. If you don't have any money, I would say invest that time on the Internet to study.
the ideas that drive you, whether it's how to be a better writer, a better craftsperson, and whatever the field, whether it's art direction, art design, production design, editing, directing, writing. know, thankfully, you can access all of these things on the internet. And while I would never discourage anyone from going to college to pursue this kind of work, I also know that it would be irresponsible of me to say,
College is your only avenue because it's not you know there are there are so many trade Programs that you can find there are there are one-year conservatories you can find There is even though it's Popular anymore there used to be apprenticeships where someone would guide you and you would basically work under them and learn from them And it really depends on the kind of person you are you know I was inherently an introvert
I grew up with a stutter, you know, so I didn't know why I didn't know. And I was very much shy about it, about everything. So, you know, my experience isn't your experience, but I can speak to the experience of just not knowing. And the quickest way to know something is to look it up, you know, look it up and follow up and don't take the first thing you read as gospel.
Get other sources, do your research, get multiple records of the same thing that either support your ideas, support your hypothesis, support what you're learning or disprove it. You know, there is no gospel to what it is that we do. We're three different people here who come at visual storytelling in three different ways. So there is no one way of doing it, you know. So I think I would just encourage anyone
to keep being curious and keep investigating yourself. The first performance.
Heather (54:16)
Yeah, I love that. It's like developing your point of view is the one thing like that makes you unique in this industry. And you don't need to go to university for that. I mean, there are so many different ways to learn. As you said, there are workshops and you can get an internship. You can also just make your own university, you will, through YouTube University and all of that stuff. And also learning just by doing, know, setting up
little figures and filming it with your phone, like you'll figure out, you know, different things and the rule of thirds and you'll just start to, you know, kind of absorb these different things. So I think it's very cool. Our industry, you don't need to necessarily have that piece of paper like you do in some others. You know, you don't need to have the engineering degree or the, you know, the doctorate or anything to pursue that career path, which is really cool and exciting. just
really need to have a point of view and develop those technical skills, you know.
Greg Payton (55:18)
Yeah, I think the one thing about.
our industry, and I say industry in the broadest sense, when you're talking about commercial work, when you're about filmmaking features or documentaries, it is the one type of business where it's all about how well you can execute and how long you can execute, how smartly you can execute.
and do it among people who you enjoy being around, who enjoy being around you, ideally. That isn't always the case. Whereas other professions, whether it's a lawyer, doctor, sanitation, you can train and be in those fields. And once you qualify for those skills, then you can be in those environments.
Some that are more mission-crowed than others, But our industry is the one unique where a degree will not say whether or not you can execute on a set. They can say that you were responsible enough to be in one place at a certain time when you had to be there, why you had to be there for anywhere from one to four years. So at least it teaches you about that kind of
Discipline, you know, which again for some people they need that I know I did for some people they're self-actualizing and they don't you know, so
Jess (56:52)
I really like that perspective, being able to show that you're responsible to be able to be in one space and complete these tasks, the semesters, classes, and be able to follow through. I've never really heard about college spoken like that before.
Heather (56:53)
That's fantastic.
Well, I think that's a great note for us to end on because I feel like it just gives people hope to, you can always keep learning and there's always ways to continue to be a student in this business and educating yourself, like you said, Greg, just by trial and error, testing out new things. There's so many different tools and things that are accessible to us all. Just going to.
in an own art gallery watching a movie can learn. So it's very cool and exciting. But before we wrap up, I wanted to find out from you if there's anything you want to plug, point people to, where can people find you, all the good stuff.
Greg Payton (57:49)
Well, again, thank you both for having me on this. I really do appreciate it. And it's really valuable and humbling to kind of understand what the journey looks like and kind of where it comes from. And throughout all the different jobs I've had, it's afforded me the ability to keep making films and to keep making short films.
And so you can find a lot of that work on my website, which is imgregpaton.com. So it's all one word, imgregpaton.com. And my Instagram is so at director G. Payton. So at director G. Payton on Instagram. And a lot of that is filled with more explorations of just photography and filmmaking. Micro shorts, short films, rock series.
did commercial campaigns. Most recently I had the honor and privilege of wrapping up a seven season series for LA Times today. And it was a really... We did, we said that's right, we did. And it was a really great show and that was a really great show that was...
Heather (58:47)
What you want an Emmy for?
Jess (58:50)
Hehehehe
Greg Payton (58:56)
about news and was also about arts and culture and things that affected Los Angeles and Angelino and it was a great show and and probably proud of that work and that made me just a better artist and a better professional you know working with other journalists and working on those tight deadlines and pivoting always pivoting and so you know ⁓ applying that has made me an even faster filmmaker.
So when I get onto a set, I'm even faster in terms of making decisions because, you know, not to to trivialize it, but you know, being able to be on the set to direct or to shoot or do whatever or take unit skills is a gift and it's a privilege. You know, it is very important. It is very creative. And while I do find it to be very sacred to take the work seriously, but don't take yourself too seriously.
You know, get in, get what you need to get out. You know, make your decisions and go home. Because when you sit down in front of that computer screen, you want to know that you the right decisions and didn't just say, let's just shoot everything and we'll find it later. No, no, we're not doing that. We're getting just what we need and we're getting out
Heather (1:00:15)
Having that clear vision is like so important. And the faster the work and the tighter deadlines, and it just forces you to just be really clear in that vision. And that's a hard skill. I think we're all always developing that, right? Yeah. Amazing.
Jess (1:00:29)
Absolutely.
Greg Payton (1:00:31)
Yeah. And never changes.
That's the one thing that should be considered to remember is like, no matter what you know now, you're going to have much more learning tomorrow. again, I am jealous at the generation coming up now who was a generation alpha, where it's just like what they have at their disposal is insanely impressive.
and it's gonna be terrifying. But also there's the opportunity to really tell your stories from your POV like nobody else can. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather (1:01:09)
Yeah, it's exciting. There's so many tools at their fingertips, and they're just have grown up natively with so much like there's so much just probably feels just so comfortable to them. And they can navigate that
world so easily. It'd be just so interesting all the things that continue to come as like generation kind of matures a little bit and they start coming into the workforce and everything. exciting stuff. Well, thank you, Greg for
Greg Payton (1:01:31)
Well
Heather (1:01:37)
being here with us and hanging out and for spending time.
Jess (1:01:40)
Thank you so much.
Greg Payton (1:01:42)
again, thank you both seriously.
Jess (1:01:44)
Alright, that's the show for today, but before we switch back we want to remind you...
Heather (1:01:48)
Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. It helps us so much. Follow us on social at switching to pod and also go to our website and get on our mailing list because anything new, cool, exciting we're doing, we're going to send it out to our mailing list first. So you're going to want to get on it.
Jess (1:02:08)
Yeah, thanks for listening to Switching 2!
Heather (1:02:11)
Thanks guys, we'll see you next time.
Thanks for listening to Switching Two, hosted and edited by Heather Kate Duncan and Jess Boyer. Original music by Topflow, courtesy of the Pixabay Royalty Free Music Library. Recorded on location in Los Angeles, California.
Jess (1:02:27)
Follow us on social at SwitchingTwoPod. Show notes and transcripts can be found at SwitchingTwoPod.com.
