Casting with Heart: Interview with Jessica Sherman
Listen to full episode :
In this inspiring conversation, Heather and Jess sit down with Casting Director and Nonprofit Founder Jessica Sherman to explore both the art and heart of casting. Jessica shares her personal journey in the entertainment industry, the challenges she’s faced along the way, and the value of building genuine connections in an ever-evolving creative landscape. The trio discusses how casting has changed in a post-pandemic world and the power of community through Jessica’s nonprofit, A Cause for Entertainment, which raises awareness and support for those affected by breast cancer. Together, they reflect on the shared experiences of actors and casting directors, the joy of meaningful collaborations, and the importance of fostering a compassionate, inclusive industry.
About Jessica Sherman
Jessica Sherman is an award-winning Casting Director who has left her mark on some of film and television’s most iconic projects. A proud Los Angeles native, Jessica discovered her passion for casting while studying at UC Riverside and has since built an impressive career fueled by her love for storytelling and talent discovery.
Jessica got her start under the mentorship of April Webster, working on unforgettable Bad Robot/JJ Abrams projects like Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Star Trek Into Darkness, Super 8, and CBS’ Person of Interest. She later teamed up with Carlton Cuse to cast the critically acclaimed series Bates Motel for A&E and FX’s The Strain.
In 2017, Jessica launched her own casting company, where she has championed fresh voices and diverse talent in projects like Sundance darling Sleight, Tribeca favorite Thumper, Amazon's gripping limited series Tell Me Your Secrets, and Disney+’s epic series Willow. Her work on the Oscar-winning short film Skin earned her an Artios Award, cementing her reputation as a leader in the industry.
Jessica also co-hosts the buzzworthy podcast Tipsy Casting, now in its third season. With candid conversations, industry insights, and plenty of laughs, Jessica and her co-host, Jenn Presser, give listeners a front-row seat to the fascinating world of casting.
Beyond her work in entertainment, Jessica is the heart behind A Cause for Entertainment, a nonprofit she founded to support women and families affected by breast cancer. The organization recently celebrated its milestone 10th anniversary, continuing its impactful mission to raise awareness and provide critical support to those in need.
Jessica’s passion for creativity, connection, and giving back defines her as not just a casting director, but a force for change in the industry and beyond.
Takeaways
The casting process is deeply collaborative, balancing the creative vision with a genuine understanding of actors.
Building strong relationships and authentic connections is key to long-term success in the entertainment industry.
The casting landscape continues to evolve, especially in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Authenticity fosters trust and lasting professional partnerships.
Common misconceptions often paint casting directors as gatekeepers, but in truth, they’re allies in the creative process.
The real joy of casting lies in discovering the perfect fit for a role after persistence and collaboration.
Community engagement—such as through nonprofit work—can bring renewed perspective and fulfillment.
Mentorship and mutual support are essential in navigating the challenges of a creative career.
Jessica’s nonprofit, A Cause for Entertainment, is a powerful example of how giving back can create lasting, meaningful impact.
Jessica’s Links
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Heather (00:00)
Heather for Jess.
Jess (00:02)
Go for Jess.
Heather (00:04)
Can you switch to two?
Jess (00:05)
Switching
Heather (00:06)
Hey, I'm Heather. We're two multi-hyphenate creatives figuring it out in real time.
Jess (00:07)
and I'm Jess.
from on set and in the
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Heather (00:16)
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Jess (00:23)
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Heather (00:28)
This is switching two the side channel for creative conversations.
Jess (00:32)
We're glad you're here.
Heather (00:33)
All right, we're on two
Jess (00:35)
Hi Heather. How's it going?
Heather (00:36)
Hi, Jess. It's
going great. I am once again so excited to be here with you on the pod. And I think we should commemorate this moment because this is a first recording since officially going live with our podcast. Do you want to talk about that?
Jess (00:53)
Yay!
I'm so proud of us. Yeah, we launched our podcast two days ago now. Two days ago? Two days ago. time this comes out, it'll be a few days from now or a few weeks from now or something. it's a... Gosh, we've been working on this for what? Six months?
Heather (01:01)
Super proud.
excited.
Jess (01:13)
Yeah,
yeah, but we're super grateful for everyone that supported us. know, all the all of our guests that have we've recorded with so far that you're going to get to hear from in the next several episodes. All of the people, our future guests, we're super grateful for everyone that supported us. I mean, we had listener we listeners who weren't listeners submit listener episodes to stop like we're just we're so grateful for everybody that supported us and.
Heather (01:26)
our future guests to come.
ahead of time.
Yeah, so much gratitude for the response. Everyone has just been super supportive on social and following us and liking and subscribing and all that good stuff. So thank you to everyone. It's amazing to see the community come out. ⁓ So yeah.
Jess (01:41)
So excited that we're here.
Our hearts are so warmed. Our hearts
are so warmed. So we have...
Heather (02:01)
Speaking of hearts being warmed.
Jess (02:04)
Yeah, you know what? Today's episode is heartwarming because Jessica, our guest Jessica, is a pretty amazing person. Do you want to tell us a little bit about her?
Heather (02:14)
Yeah, so we're talking to Jessica Sherman on the pod today. She's an award winning casting director. She's a proud Los Angeles native and she has worked on some pretty incredible projects. She got her start under the mentorship of April Webster. So she worked on a of J.J. Abrams films like Star Wars, The Force Awakens, Super Eight.
And then in 2017, she launched her own casting company where she's championed Fresh Voices and diverse talent in projects like Sundance, Starling, Slight, Tribeca, Favorite Thumper, Amazon's Gripping Limited series, Tell Me Your Secrets, Disney Plus's epic series Willow, a ton of other stuff.
but in addition to that, Jessica also co-hosts, the podcast, Tipsy Casting now in its third season. And she is the founder of a nonprofit called The Cause for Entertainment, which supports women and families affected by breast cancer. So we will definitely talk about that.
You'll hear about Jessica's passion for creativity, connection, and giving back, which really defines her not just as a casting director, but as a force for change in the industry and beyond.
Jess (03:20)
I'm excited for everybody to hear about her journey, Jessica's, you know, the journey that she made in her career and how she's such an innovative person.
Heather (03:33)
Yes, she got told no a lot. As she tells us in her stories, she went for something and someone told her no. So she found another way to go about it. And she really carved her own path in this industry in so many different ways and shares a lot of insights for actors and really great information.
Jess (03:53)
I
Yeah, I thought it was interesting because I don't come from the casting world. I don't come from commercial and narrative and stuff like that. And so just kind of understanding what her job looks like, what her day to day looks like, what the process for getting into casting is like. know what they. It's just it's so I feel like it's a part of the industry that not a lot of people know about. Like a lot of people are like, yeah, this is what a director does or this is what an editor
Heather (03:59)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, there's a lot of mystique or some, you know, I think myths about working in casting, which Jessica talks about. and, you know, I think we even just within the industry, sometimes we don't have a full understanding of what another department does or, know, we're in production and someone's more in pre-production So it's really awesome to, I think hear from different individuals in the industry about what they do, because I think it just makes us all closer and.
better at our jobs.
Jess (04:46)
Absolutely. Let's get into it.
Heather (04:48)
Let's do it.
Heather (04:48)
Hi Jessica, welcome.
Jessica Sherman (04:50)
Thank you so much for having me.
Heather (04:54)
Thanks for being
Jess (04:54)
me to have you.
Heather (04:54)
here. For the purposes of this, just for clarification, so we have Jessica Sherman on the pod today, and we also have Jess, who you guys know as our host. So I think we'll say Jess and then Jessica for clarity for everyone.
Well, we're super excited to just dive in today. But Jessica, would you like mine just giving a quick intro
who you are a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Jessica Sherman (05:18)
Sure. I am a Los Angeles native, grew up, born and raised here. I got into the industry right out of college and worked at a voiceover agency for two years and then started my foray into casting. And since then I have been in casting for almost 16 years, a little bit all over the place in terms of my resume, but film, television, pilot series.
Indie all over the place basically
Heather (05:47)
Amazing.
Jess (05:47)
And she has
a podcast too.
Jessica Sherman (05:50)
Yes, yes
Heather (05:50)
Yes, podcast
host, nonprofit founder. I think you left some stuff out, but we'll get to all of that.
Jessica Sherman (05:51)
I
Forget
about it. But yes podcast house as well. I co-host with another casting director Jen presser a podcast called tipsy casting where we drink booze and talk about the industry and It's been a lovely journey
Heather (06:11)
That's awesome. That's so cool. You do so many different things. I mean, I was looking into more into your website and I was just like, my gosh, she's involved with so many things even more than what I had known that you were involved in, which is really cool. And I want to get into that. But I kind of want to start a little bit at the beginning, if you would take us back to when you were starting your career. You know, did you know that you wanted to?
build a career in this business or was it something that sort of you found or found you or you know was there like a defining moment in all of this?
Jessica Sherman (06:45)
Yeah, I think I definitely didn't know about casting periods, like it was a ⁓ career. I grew up in a town that was like had a very heavy music scene. And so sort of across the board and through the arts of like, I am tone deaf and can't play any instruments. So I wasn't a doer.
But I was a spectator
Jessica Sherman (07:07)
So yeah, I grew up thinking like, or the dream of dreams was to do A &R, which is discovering new musicians. But I also had no way into that space. But I was the kid that would always every, I think it's every Thursday, you'd go to Walmart and you see what DVDs were out or, you know, pre times of VHS. And then, you know, and what music came out, they all, everything came out on the same day. And so
that would be my go-to. And so I just sort of naturally was always surrounded by it. But I did my family, my parents are originally from Ukraine. And so the immigrants ⁓ journey of working your ass off and then making sure your children pick suitable paths of stability and necessity was definitely the
sort of expectation. And so I went to school, I studied business and economics. And, you know, my dad had all sorts of plans for me, which I threw out the window. And my there was a friend of the family who was she had gotten she was very successful in international distribution. And having somebody in that space sort of made it seem more attainable to have like an entry point. And so I ⁓
she had at some point offered to do offered me an internship. And I only found out this year, I all this time I thought she just like, disappeared when it was time to get the internship. I learned this year that my dad actually passed on the internship on my behalf because he was like, she's graduating from college. She's not working for free. Not having no clue how this business Yeah, yeah.
Jess (08:44)
Stop it.
Heather (08:45)
Wow.
Jessica Sherman (08:46)
That was a very interesting conversation to have with my family.
Heather (08:51)
Wait, wait, so she
offered you the internship, but then your dad passed on your behalf, unbeknownst to you.
Jessica Sherman (08:56)
Yeah, and all this time,
yeah, all this time I thought she just like disappeared. And yeah, so that was that was fun. But even with all that said, like I was like, you know what, this is my time to figure out what I want to do and or to go on the path, you know, that was laid out for me in some ways. And so I decided to go and I got an internship at a different international distribution company.
and at a voiceover agency. And it became very clear that the International Distribution Company hired me to basically move their office for them as an intern. And then the voiceover agency was sort of like the place that I discovered my love of working with actors. And they had originally hired me for data entry. And then about, I want to say a month into it, they hired me as their office manager. And so I was...
you know, seeing these great actors every day and it's such a different community than theatrical because it's like, it has nothing to do with your face or your looks or anything like that. And it's very difficult to replicate something somebody has done with their voice. Like it's uniquely them, you know? So I think I got a really cool education on the community.
And because also voiceover has the agents have autonomy from casting directors in a way that they don't in theatrical. So I got to see sort of like the casting process happen within the agency bubble, essentially. And so for me, I think six months into it, I was like, I don't want to be an agent, but I do love actors. And so it took me about a year and a half to break into it. But I eventually had to.
go back and be an intern as an intern in casting, because you couldn't make a lateral move. And so I got my big break about a year and a half in.
Jess (10:47)
Can you, this might be
skipping ahead a little bit, but can you talk a little bit about the difference in casting for voiceover versus theatrical?
Jessica Sherman (10:56)
Yeah, mean, voiceover. So the process with voiceover is we would release a breakdown and then the agencies decide who they're going to submit on their roster, like the actual audition, who they will submit to that for that role. And so it's most of the agencies will will sort of like self eliminate. They will have
you know, 15, 20 actors audition for the role and then before they send it out, they will eliminate the weakest links essentially and then send their strongest choices. For theatrical, we get the decision of who is going to audition for it. It's a little bit more, I think, you know, not to say the voiceover casting directors don't have this as well, but like, you know, we are, our knowledge of actors and their breadth of work.
and what their growth and timeline of things is a very expansive space for us. And so we take control of the creative process a bit more than think video casting directors do.
Jess (11:57)
That's so interesting just kind of how it's a similar but different process.
Jessica Sherman (12:01)
Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, in voiceover, you can also make requests of like, you know, I know certain actors who are very right for this having seen them or heard them over and over again. But but normally, it's like, you can do a special request, and then they just send in whoever else. But I will say having the voiceover experience come before the theatrical casting process. I
Heather (12:02)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Sherman (12:24)
absorb auditions differently, I think, than most casting directors, because whenever I'm watching a tape, I will most often listen to it first to see if it sounds organic. Like, is this the way that people really speak? Does it sound natural? Does it, you know? So I listen and then watch.
Heather (12:43)
that's so interesting. I think what's cool, too, is you were at an agency and so you but because it was voiceover, you were like developing a lot of those skills, you know, as a cast because you're kind of making those choices or those calls at the agency side. So that's interesting. Like, didn't really think about that. Sometimes as actors, we don't like dissect all of those little like things. So that's really cool and interesting. So you.
Jessica Sherman (12:44)
Yeah.
Heather (13:06)
We're at the voiceover agency and then you had this, you know, feeling of like, okay, I want to go into casting. I don't want to be an agent, which I've heard a lot of people say that. I didn't want to go to that side. You didn't want to be representation. And so then what was the pathway from there like for you?
Jessica Sherman (13:18)
Yeah.
So basically I did everything that I believe actors had done at some point of like, you know, sending out greeting cards and doing a building a website and you know, trying everything and none of it worked because I think in hindsight, they probably thought I was an actor trying to build a relationship with them under the facade of casting rather than someone who was actually interested in casting.
Heather (13:45)
Mm.
Jessica Sherman (13:49)
So the last thing, my last such effort was I started crashing actor workshops to meet casting associates and directors. And that was the thing that worked. And so there was this associate who he's no longer in the business, but he took me under his wing and he basically anytime he was casting a commercial or a short film, he would let me sit in and I would just absorb whatever I could through osmosis, you know, just as much as I possibly could. And, and so
I worked with him like evenings and weekends for a year probably of that year and a half. And then he finally called me and he was like, hey, I have this movie that I'm associated on. you know, send me your resume. I think this will be it. I was like, great, this is gonna be it. I signed it off. And then he calls me 15 minutes later and he's like, just kidding. They want someone with experience. It's a big studio movie.
all of that stuff. And so I hung up with him and I called my dad because you know, I'm from here and I think at the time I was still living with my parents post college. So I was a commuter from like, Lancaster to LA, just to give you a scope. And, and so I called him and I said, Listen, if, necessary, will you support me for a year if I quit my job and go be an intern? And so he said yes, but
If it doesn't happen in a year, you're going to law school. So, yeah.
Jess (15:11)
Wow.
So I just want to backtrack for a second for anyone who's listening who doesn't know the drive from Lancaster to LA. It's like an hour and a half, two hours on a traffic day, on a good day. So that's certainly a commute. I'm just wondering, if that, how do you get experience then?
Heather (15:22)
bar.
Jessica Sherman (15:25)
Good day. Yeah.
Heather (15:26)
Good day. To
me.
Jessica Sherman (15:29)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's the thing that it's so funny because like since then there's a lot that has happened that like there was this Sony lawsuit from Black Swan, like there's like interning became a lot more challenging to get those opportunities. But especially for a casting office. But for me, I was very lucky that like he this other associate took me under his wing and like explained everything he even gave me like, here, do the short film that I can't do. ⁓
But like all you will have to do is like, you know, do the sort of more administrative stuff and this will just give you the hands-on experience that you need. So, and then when I finally got into the office for the other, because I called them back and I said, you know, will you take a full-time intern? And they said, yes. So I quit my job and I went and I did this internship, which I didn't know how long it would last.
Um, but it was, ended after nine days, they hired me as their assistant. Thank God. Yes. I got very lucky. Yeah. And so I guess I proved myself that I can, that I at least have the hunger to learn. so, um, so yeah, so they hired me after nine days and then a couple of weeks into it, I thought I was working on the remake of the movie, little darlings from, think it was like the late eighties, early nineties.
Heather (16:32)
wow.
Jess (16:34)
That's amazing!
Jessica Sherman (16:55)
And a couple weeks into it, had everybody with like my bosses were running in freaking out. And they were like, are the lists ready? Are the lists ready? Steven's coming, Steven's coming. And I was like, explain what's happening. And that day I learned that I was not working on Little Darlings, but I was working on Super 8 when Steven Spielberg walked in and as the EP on the movie. So it was basically the jackpot of all first jobs.
Heather (17:22)
Wow, that's so cool. That's awesome that you took that risk though, because I mean, I have mixed emotions about this because having done the same thing, like telling people, do, can I work for free? Like, I'll just, I'll help you. And having the ability to do that, I think was really so invaluable because...
Jessica Sherman (17:23)
Yeah. Yeah.
Heather (17:43)
Same thing kind of happened to me. Like one day somebody handed me a laptop and was like, can you solve this problem right now? And I said, yeah, I think I can fix this problem. By problem, I mean like, you an actor not showing up to set and trying to, you know, a producer hands me a laptop. And then they're like, great, who are you again? Like, can, wait, yeah, who are you? You know, can we hire you? And so I think like, you know, I know there's more restrictions than there needs to be.
Jessica Sherman (17:54)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Heather (18:06)
to protect people, but I also think at the same time there's something to be said about just getting in and having the experience without the pressure to be able to just learn and absorb because our industry is so much about learning from others. It's more of a trade than anything, you know.
Jessica Sherman (18:21)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think, you know, I realized I was in a very privileged position to be able to have somebody to fall back on, worst case scenario. But I do agree. It's like, there's got to be more or fewer barriers of entry. So I think it's, you know, even if you're in college or not in college and trying to find the balance of things. And I think there are more programs that are being
built and existence now than there were ever when I was coming up, that's for sure. So, you know, I think there are opportunities for people that even that don't have that ability to like fall back on somebody.
Heather (19:02)
Yeah, for sure. What would you say to some, and this may also be jumping ahead, but I just wonder, I know the landscape is so different and maybe you can talk about that. I've heard from a lot of different casting offices that they don't actually, they don't have a physical office and they're casting.
some of the biggest projects there are. And I know that does make it hard to have interns or shadow. I mean, you can have worked with interns that are virtual, but it's just a little bit more difficult. So like, what are some of the ways if somebody wants to maybe pursue a career in casting some suggestions for like areas to to start for them?
Jessica Sherman (19:41)
Well, I would always say like I didn't have this experience, but I know a lot of other casting people did that they'd started as PAs and sort of built their relationships through like being in the production office or on set of like meeting the casting director, you know, what have you. But I will say this is it's a really before actually before I say that, I'll say Casting Society also has a training program that you can sign up for. They host it like I
They used to do it quarterly. don't know if it's as often as it had been. But you can go through that. That'll get you a lot of like foundational stuff. And you also get sort of like a certification by the end of it that makes you a little bit, that puts you sort of like a little bit higher on the totem pole in terms of an entry level position. And then also like CBS has a different program. I think a lot of the studios are developing their own sort of like intern, but
paid intern positions in order to train the next generation. I will say we are in a really difficult place right now because the scarcity of work is a real thing for every department, not exclusively casting, obviously. But we have that problem. We also have a huge discrepancy in like
equitable access to opportunities within the casting community. So what ends up happening is you have like a contingency of 10, 15 casting directors that are taking all of the work. Meanwhile, the rest of the casting directors are basically scraping by. And so this was sort of a problem before, but COVID ultimately exacerbated it because we, you know, before you can...
be in a room for however many hours you can be in the room with actors. And that limited the amount of work you could do. Post COVID, when nobody's in the room and everybody is just looking through self tapes, it's endless. You can take as much as you want, basically. So there's a crazy level of gatekeeping that's happening on the studio level that is creating this problem. And so I say all this because one, it's important for actors to understand that
If you, for example, cannot get into Mary Vernoux's office, if you don't have a relationship with her, like you're ultimately missing on 150 opportunities a year, right? So if not more, who knows? But so that's it. Our problem is also the actor's problem. You know, it completely connects us in that space. But also to talk about the support staff.
There's so many, so the hierarchy in a casting office is, you know, if you do have an intern, intern, casting assistant, casting associate, casting director. And so for us, a lot of casting assistants started post 2020. So the idea is that some of these people have never been in a room with actors before, which is the craziest concept, you know?
Jess (22:39)
Wow.
Jessica Sherman (22:42)
And that idea then sort of escalates as you sort of look at the macro of it, like this is the next generation of our craft. And if they've never worked with an actor directly or don't have that like intimate knowledge of like the language that we use and all of that stuff, how are we gonna do that?
Heather (22:49)
Right.
That's wild.
Jess (23:00)
So
what are some solutions to that? What do you see the future code look like?
Jessica Sherman (23:09)
I think that, I mean, this is the hard part because the studios are saving money so they are not pushing to have people back in the office. And the contingency of casting directors that could push to make this happen are the ones that are benefiting the most off of it. So they're not incentivized to get us back in the room. I think it really, it's gonna take filmmakers to push back.
and say we need this in the room experience, we need to meet actors before we're on set with them. And getting us back in the room is one, it's gonna be a huge benefit for our people, but also the generation of actors that like, just read it, we did a callback session in person with this young actor and he said that I was his first in person ever. And he's been auditioning for like four years, you know?
Heather (24:00)
wow.
Jessica Sherman (24:03)
And so like for me, I need to know is this actor professional? Is he showing up on time? Like what's that experience gonna be sending him to a set or her to them to a set, you know? So I think it's like, there's a lot that's involved in the casting process that's beyond just finding the best actor for the role. And I think that we've lost that and like also the connection that we all have. So it's the hard thing of like building those relationships.
I think it's gonna take people pushing to get us back in those places. But a lot of people ask me of like, how do actors build relationships with casting directors when they're never in the same room together? And honestly, it's like finding authentic ways to connect with those people. Because those relationships are gonna last longer than somebody that feels transactional.
Heather (24:51)
for sure. I would love to hear from you, like a little bit more of the technical side of kind of unpacking these different levels in casting, know, intern, assistant, associate and cat, like, how do the responsibilities of each of those kinds of roles sort of differ? Like, what does your job, you know, kind of entail at maybe some of those stages in the process?
Jessica Sherman (25:15)
Yeah, and granted it's changed. you know, intern is always just like sort of the basic things. I mean, when we were in an office, an intern was making sure the room that we would audition in is set up nicely. I mean, you know, it was more about the learning experience and less about the like, at least in the offices that I worked in, it's never about like making interns do grunt work. It was about making sure like
Heather (25:18)
Sure.
Jessica Sherman (25:42)
The idea is that when you have your next project, you could hire them, right? So it was about educating them as much as possible, letting them experience the audition process, the administrative side of it, and sort of like seeing the scope of it. So there would be few things here and there that we would have them do, know, opening the mail, seeing what those headshots were. Now, my interns are just...
Heather (25:46)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Sherman (26:09)
basically readers, you know, and most of the time it's an actor if it's a if I have somebody for a reader. But so I don't really have use for an intern right now. And then assistance, it's, it's all administrative, it's scheduling, it's, we have a comprehensive list for each character that we're working on. And so a lot of the time, when I was an assistant, I was responsible for that list to make sure every actor we have
considered or seen was named on that list with their their agency information and if we have read them when did we read them if they taped if we know all of those details session sheets as much administrative stuff that you could think of basically a lot of scheduling and then associate I was brought up in an office that my boss always told me the casting associate is basically can do the job of a casting director just without the contacts
So it's picking people who would audition, going through the auditions and watching them and making selects. And then the casting director is the same thing plus doing negotiations on deals. mean, the associate will sometimes do deals as well. But I think for us, it's like the relationships and the...
communication and input that we bring to the creative team for the director or the producer. So it's, I feel like I said a lot, but nothing at the same time.
Jess (27:30)
No, that's so interesting.
I was telling Heather earlier, like I come from broadcast and so casting isn't really something that I have a lot of experience in and Heather and I have been working on some projects this year where she's been doing some casting. But just like, and so I've kind of started to learn some of the different things that she looks for and why she makes certain decisions about things. But just you kind of laying out this.
Jessica Sherman (27:45)
Yeah.
Jess (27:55)
process and this hierarchy of, you know, kind of how somebody comes up to becoming a casting director, what the process looks like. I'm wondering, do you wish there was anything that people, any misconceptions that you want to address or anything that you wish people knew about your industry that they don't? And maybe you already shared this and kind of this process.
Jessica Sherman (28:17)
Yeah, think for the big, I think the really big misconception is like it's us versus them as far as casting versus actors. And that's genuinely not, I mean, I'm not gonna say they're not casting directors who aren't the nicest people. They exist just like they're unkind people in every other profession. But it is counterproductive for us to create an uncomfortable environment for actors.
because then we can't get the best performance out of those actors if they don't feel safe to do the work. So this notion that we are working against you versus with you, I think is the biggest misconception because we're tracking your career. We're tracking not only your career, but like your improvement. Maybe you see somebody a couple of times, you're like, well, they're not quite ready.
but let's give them a break. Maybe they'll go back to classes. Maybe they'll go do this, that. And then you try them again in six months, a year, whatever it might be. every person that walks in the proverbial room, we hope that you are the answer to our problem. So I think that's the big one.
Heather (29:26)
Yeah, I just learning, you know, over time, as I've grown in my career behind the scenes, how similar casting and actors are to one another. Like they're both kind of these, you know, looking for projects in the same type of way. And just a lot of those things are very similar. also having been kind of a fly on the wall, working on commercial projects when the director's there and the brand is there and the agency is there, you start to...
I don't know, these things start to click. Like it's not necessarily this person is good and this person is bad. You're just like, no, it just, they're not right. And I can't even tell you why, but it's not working and then everybody kind of sees it. It's like this light bulb went off. But yeah, I think it's really just so interesting how similar casting and actors are in many ways and their kind of experiences and stuff.
Jessica Sherman (30:17)
Yeah, and
I also think it's like, especially for like TV, and probably for commercial too, a little bit like it is casting by committee. Like it's a miracle that anything gets cast, to be honest with you, because you know, it's sometimes it's not like the best actor wins. Sometimes it's the actor everyone can agree on. And that I think is so important for actors to know and understand that we, you know, we're trying to
Heather (30:27)
Yeah.
Jessica Sherman (30:45)
fit as many, you know, we're trying to convince people just as the same that you're trying to convince us. So, you know, we go through our process and we're sending our selects and we have our favorites too that we thought knocked it out of the park. But sometimes it's like beating your head against a wall that they just won't listen to you.
Heather (31:04)
Yeah, agency is crazy.
Jess (31:04)
I just,
Heather (31:05)
Their responses of
why they don't want to pick someone or why they want someone, it's sometimes kind of wild.
Jess (31:12)
Well, and I like watching again, Heather and I worked on a few projects this year where I like she would put the deck together with the the folks that were her favorites and kind of how she would pair them and everything. And I just just listening to the whole room, you know, sometimes people are like, yep, perfect. Great. But then sometimes we go back multiple times and and, know, even if it's others favorite or the director's favorite or whoever, you know, the client.
Jessica Sherman (31:12)
Yeah.
Jess (31:40)
you know, wants to change, but even sometimes the client doesn't necessarily know who they're looking for.
Heather (31:44)
They don't know what they want. They don't know what
Jessica Sherman (31:44)
Mm-hmm.
Heather (31:46)
they know what they don't want, which is, you know, fine. But they don't quite know what they want sometimes. So that's yeah, it's just.
Jessica Sherman (31:54)
Or you start
thinking you want something specific and then you give it to them and they're like, just kidding, we don't want that.
Heather (31:57)
Yeah. no. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jess (32:02)
Well, you have quite a challenging job.
Heather (32:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, for sure.
Jessica Sherman (32:06)
But it's fun. think it's like, as long as you can keep perspective, I think it's really fun to be able to like build a puzzle every, you know, if it's every week, if you're doing episodic or every few months, I think it's a really gratifying way to look at it. That you, know, and every next piece changes, like as soon as you set one down, the next piece needs change based on what you've just set down.
Heather (32:30)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Sherman (32:31)
it's really, it's fun.
Heather (32:32)
Yeah. Well, Jess and I were talking about the other day on the pod, actually, about Back to the Future and how they had this other actor originally cast. And Robert Zemeckis was like, he was a great actor. He just didn't fit the world. You know, suddenly we plug him in and it just doesn't make sense. And it's nothing against that, you know, a performer or anything. It's just it's like a mismatch, you know. Mm Is there.
Jessica Sherman (32:40)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Heather (32:56)
you know, anything that you feel, if you could pinpoint one thing about being casting director, like what you love about your work, like your favorite thing.
Jessica Sherman (33:04)
think when the puzzle part of it for sure, but I also think like being able to, the most favorite thing is auditioning actor and actor year after year after year and it not striking and then finally being able to be like, yes, we found it. This was the run. So that one moment that you finally get to book an actor after so many attempts is really gratifying.
but also having a relationship with the filmmaker that you feel like you're respected and that your input has weight. And I've been very lucky the last few films that I've worked on that like the director called me with one thing in his head. And then by the time we got off the phone, like the producer called me the next day and he's like, I don't know what you said, but he changed his mind. I was like, thank you.
But you know, because I could see the overall picture. I know the essence of these performers and what they're going to bring to the characters, but not only to the character, but the person that we've already cast is like how that's going to match tonally. And so, you know, I think it's like being able to have somebody's ear to understand like the full picture that we're looking at is very valuable.
Heather (34:16)
Yeah, that's so important. And it's crazy too if you don't receive that because that's literally what you're brought in to do, to be that voice and you know.
Jessica Sherman (34:27)
You'd be surprised.
Jess (34:27)
Have
there been any projects that you feel like you just that are highlights or that you feel like you had a really big success or a really big learning lesson?
Jessica Sherman (34:37)
Yes, there's a lot of them. Yes, I'll say that Star Wars The Force Awakens, I was the associate on that one. And that was a wild experience of just like the magnitude of the franchise, right? Especially because it was the first one back since, you know, the relaunch of the franchise.
Jess (34:39)
that you can share about.
Heather (34:57)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Sherman (35:00)
And so that the preciousness, how much you could do, like I pitched, cause we weren't finding what we were looking for, or at least we didn't think we did, cause nobody was listening. You know, I put together a whole schedule for an open call that I was traveling for three weeks and through the Midwest doing basically like American Idol.
That was like the wildest thing that I've done professionally. And I met so many interesting actors that I'm still in touch with now and have cast since that didn't make it into Star Wars. But like it was such a phenomenal experience to be able to like cherry pick actors from across the US essentially.
But so that was a really cool one just to sort of be part of something so massive. And then I will say, like I've had some smaller movies that just, that did really well. Like I did a movie that came out this year in theater is called Sketch. And it was just like a really special movie. It was about a family that was mourning together with a band of kids and Tony Hale and Darcy Carden.
And the director, met through Bad Robot when I was an assistant and like I've known him for a very long time now and this was his first feature. it, you know, it did really, it went to TIFF, it premiered there, then it had a theatrical run. so like seeing people rise to their moment is like a really amazing part of this industry.
Heather (36:28)
Yeah, it so is. Jess and I have known each other for over a decade now, but we only started working together in the last, I don't know, year and a half or something like that. And so it's crazy how you meet people along the way, and you never know when it's going to be the right time to really collaborate in a certain way. And it could be a decade. And then the right timing happens, and you get to collaborate. So that's very cool.
Jessica Sherman (36:37)
Huh.
Jess (36:52)
I
really believe that the universe, you know, kind of lines things up. The stars align in some ways and there's a lot of, there's some luck, but there's a lot of preparation. And it's interesting to hear you talk about that, obviously. Like you've made all these connections over the years and you're able to pull people in on projects and make some really amazing stuff.
Jessica Sherman (37:04)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that that's, and that's why I always, especially when I talk to actors, it's always about connecting in an authentic way because when you know you have cheerleaders in your corner that are not there to benefit off of you, you wanna pull people into your success, right? So I think that that's the biggest thing. I've met so, I had such...
⁓ I got so lucky starting my career working on bad robot projects. Like I was there for like the first five years and then my I was working with ⁓ working for April Webster for almost eight years of my beginning of my career. And the fact that I started with her like it had I started anywhere else, I would have had a very different path. But having started there and
Working with bad robot and meeting all of those people because they had like an incredible intern program themselves and so I got to meet a lot of people on their way up and like still stay in touch with that there was I worked on I did some additional casting for willow with the TV series that now doesn't exist anywhere Because Disney pulled it from when they were doing their big cleaning moment but but I I got that job because
the like JJ's old assistant was now one of the top positions at Lucasfilm. So she brought me in through there and then I was like, oh, you know, there was our main producer from Star Wars was a producer on the show. The the partner JJ's business partner at the time his assistant was now at a high place, you know, so was like it was a reunion that I feel like I keep having the same kind of reunion, which is really special.
And so I just, that's like the part that I love about this industry.
Heather (38:59)
Yeah, that is incredible. I love that so much because I think to a lot of early career kids coming in, I think they're very much like they want to see the return on that they met someone and they're like, okay, great. And it's so much you just making connections and really that just means like being open and meeting people and doing great at your job and just.
Jessica Sherman (39:13)
Yeah.
Heather (39:25)
being a nice person and when the time is right, know, things will, there's moments all the time now where I have to fill some specific role on a crew and I go, but I know this photographer in, you know, Kentucky that can do this and yeah, and I met them all this time ago and you know, so you never know when it'll like sort of come back around and you can like bring those people in.
Jessica Sherman (39:43)
Yeah.
Jess (39:48)
Yeah, I tell people all the time, like every every job I think I've ever gotten is because of somebody I know. And like, think for so many people, just just making connections, Heather and I talk about this, too, because we both went to school for our career paths. And granted, they've kind of like changed stuff. But, you know, you get you put your head down and you're like, just got I got to get through. got it. I got to get the first job. I got to get the next job. And sometimes you forget.
to kind of just look at who's around you and who and just and just kind of be present and and make those human connections and and then you never know when somebody's gonna say like Heather said I need a photographer in Kentucky and you know so
Jessica Sherman (40:32)
Yeah.
Jess (40:34)
Networking is super important, but also diversifying. And you've certainly diversified yourself. I mean, when Heather and I were talking about guests ring on and she was telling me about you, there's just this whole list of things that you are, you know, and we listed them out at the beginning of the episode. But I do want to talk to you a little bit about a cause for entertainment. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Heather (40:34)
Yeah, super important.
Jessica Sherman (40:59)
Yeah, so A Cause for Entertainment is a organization that I founded in 2014, 2015. It was inspired by my grandmother's breast cancer journey. She was diagnosed with breast cancer and it was later in life for her and she had some complications with her treatment that left her in a
difficult place, but I, after that experience, I started getting involved with the Avon Walk for breast cancer. And the first year I volunteered. And then after that, I started doing the walk. And I also, at the, at the same time, this is when I just entered in to the industry at the voiceover agency, there was an agent there that had worked there for a decade before I even got there. And there was a new partner that had come on into the company.
And whatever happened, she got laid off at this time. And about six months later, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She was 39 years old. And that was like an education for me, a very eye-opening moment to see somebody go through that with no insurance and how much she really depended on these small organizations that really support.
women that are going through this journey. for I did the Avon walk for about six years and about on average, I would raise about $4,500 every year just, you know, even like just putting my donation link at the bottom of my signature every time I would send an email within the business, like people would just see it and donate which was really, I mean, really special. And then
And the last year that I did the walk, completely destroyed my feet and I'll spare you the details, I could not do the walk because it's like a 50 mile walk over two days. so I couldn't do it. At the time, Avon had a DIY option that you could host your own event and figure it out. And so I did that. I was coming off the back of Star Wars. And so I had like bad robot in my corner and I had
Lucasfilm and I was like, well, I can make some money off of I can get stuff from them. Like I could make this the money. And so I hosted it. It basically it was almost like a variety show. Missy Pyle was our host for the very first year and we did it at a small bar in Hollywood called the Next Door Lounge, which I don't know if it exists anymore. But we had
It was about 200 people then, 150 something like that. And we had a great raffle and all of this great stuff that happened. And Kate Nash performed and we raised $18,000 in the first year. so it was like, it became very clear that this was the path forward. I'm like, I'll put my body through different kind of stress this time around. It'll be okay.
Jess (43:44)
Wow.
Jessica Sherman (43:53)
And so at that point, I started a proper 501C3 and a cause for entertainment was born. so every year we have, with the exception of like 2020 due to COVID and 23 and 20, no 22 and 23 because of the double strikes in the industry, we have had an annual event every October to raise money for.
what started off as the Avon Foundation, now ⁓ we've like, the goal for me has been to shift gears into the smaller boots on the ground organizations that are doing the day-to-day work. And so we've, we have donated on behalf of there's an organization in Sherman Oaks called Wee Spark Cancer Support Center. And they're not exclusively breast cancer, but you know, that they support not only the patients, but caregivers as well. And in the past,
In 2019, like leading up to 2019, we had raised so much money, like that year we raised $95,000. And so we were able, like my dream of dreams is to always do a two pronged approach to our fundraising, to be able to split the money between research and education and the actual physical support. So in the past we had done like We Spark with Dr. Susan Love or
Another beneficiary that we've worked with now for I think eight years is Shay Sharpe's Pink Wishes. And she's our beneficiary again this year. And she does extraordinary work. She was a two-time breast cancer survivor by the time she was 36 years old. And the first time diagnosed at 26. So when she, and she had to advocate for herself when she went to the doctor to say that I felt a lump he brushed her off.
as you're too young to have breast cancer. And so she had to go back to another doctor to get checked and everything. And so when she started her journey, she realized a lot of the resources available were for women 40 and up. And I think things have changed a lot, thankfully. And unfortunately, women are getting diagnosed younger. But...
Heather (45:48)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Sherman (45:55)
she started this organization that originally started as like almost like a Make-A-Wish foundation of like final wishes if you have a terminal diagnosis. But it's grown over the years to something so beautiful. In addition to that, that she takes care of like the day to day stuff, like the things that we don't think about the, you know, having to pay for parking every time you go for chemo treatments, like child care, all of those things. And
In addition to that, in the case that the woman passes, she then essentially becomes like fairy godmother to her children and make sure that they have everything they need for birthdays, Christmas, know, life milestones. And she's just, she's really phenomenal. And she was only, cause she's based in Maryland.
Jess (46:37)
Wow.
Jessica Sherman (46:42)
So she used to just be strictly in Maryland and now she's across the country. And also I know has done some work in Canada too. So, and she started a scholarship fund for the kids who've lost their mom. So she's doing really incredible work and we're so grateful that we get to be part of, you know, what supports them.
Jess (47:00)
Gosh, what an incredible organization. mean, your organization's incredible. The organization you just described is incredible. And the event is coming up. Can you tell us a little bit about the event? I've heard some things from Heather, and it sounds very exciting.
Jessica Sherman (47:16)
Yes,
we're very lucky because Heather has joined our board this year. So I'm very happy about that. ⁓
Heather (47:23)
I'm so happy to
be a part of it.
Jessica Sherman (47:25)
Thank you. Yeah, so it's, we're very excited. It's coming up quick here. Sunday, October 26th at Huron substation. It is in, I think it's like Atwater Village area. It is from four to eight PM and we have the incredible Rachel Harris hosting. You know her from...
⁓ Suits and Lucifer and I mean she was just in Leeanne She's a very funny lady and she's gonna be a wonderful hostess. And we just brought on this incredible musical duo, ⁓ Sheer Element to perform for the evening. I think it's gonna be really special. And we have catering from Gastro Garage. They're so, they're a spectacle in addition to giving you delicious food. They cook it in front of you with torches.
So it's a lot of fun and we also have a big raffle at the event and a lot of really meaningful moments. if people would like to attend, you can buy tickets on our website at ACAUSEFORENTERTAINMENT.COM. You can find it on our Instagram ⁓ links in our bio and stuff. so come hang out with us. It'll be a great time for a great cause.
Jess (48:36)
Are there any raffle items that you're really excited about?
Jessica Sherman (48:39)
there's like a lot of, there's a lot of industry specific things
very exclusive industry experiences, a lot of professional meetings, ⁓ general meetings with casting directors, pitch meetings with different studios.
Point Grey Pictures has donated in the past, which is Seth Rogen's company. I think, you know, just visit our Instagram and keep an eye on the things that are buzzing. It'll all happen this month.
Heather (49:03)
Lots of exciting things are being announced all the time for this event. It's going to be a blast.
Jess (49:03)
Wow.
Jessica Sherman (49:07)
Yeah.
Jess (49:08)
And it's
in-person virtual. There's no excuse not to attend.
Jessica Sherman (49:13)
Yeah, the
event will be in person and then the charity will be virtual, it will be online. So you can make an impact in some way.
Heather (49:21)
Fantastic. Well, I just want to end this because I think it's so important for us all in our industry to get involved in some way, whatever that looks like for you. think there's a lot of things in our industry overall that can lead to burnout or feeling just a lot of frustrations with a lot of things. And I think that the best way to sort of
to prevent all of that from happening is to really just use your talents to give back in whatever that looks like for you. And I don't know, I just want to hear from you, Jessica, how has the process been for you or have you seen it, the ways in its impact, of course, the ways in which the organization benefits the recipients, but also the people involved as well to be able to give back in their community?
Jessica Sherman (50:12)
Yeah, I think the really important thing for me start I was 26 27 when I started the organization. I mean, not that I'm lush and cash right now either, but I you know, I didn't have a lot and a lot of my friends were in the beginning of their career too. So the thing for me was that it about like we're not a $400 a plate gala, we are an event that's accessible to people that's always been really important to me. So whether it's
with your time, like you wanna volunteer. I know Casting Society, they have their own philanthropic side, it's called Casting Society Cares, and you don't have to be a casting director to be part of it. Like as an actor, you can go do a volunteer day once a month if you wanted to. So I think there's so much that people, mean, this is more of, Heather, you can speak to this more of like you volunteered at our event last year, and again, at our summer event this year, it's like,
you know, what did you take away from that experience?
Heather (51:10)
Yeah, I mean, I am the kind of person that I've always been that.
want to get involved and I want to help and I just am like, okay, I'm there. But I always try to look at the situation and say, how can I do something where I'm best using maybe some of the things I'm good at or the realm that I'm in to best support a cause that's important? And I was just honestly so moved by the stories that were shared in the way it's in which a cause for entertainment supports kind of grassroots efforts, if you will.
to meet people where they're at because when you receive a health diagnosis, the research that some of these large organizations is doing is wonderful, but it doesn't help you today. so being able to have that direct impact and kind of give back in ways that you can really see that tangible difference, I think, is important and so important for all of us, whatever industry you're in.
you know, and ours in particular, to be able to do it with your community and then see the impact is, I think, really incredible. So, yeah, I encourage everyone to get involved.
Jessica Sherman (52:15)
Yeah, and
I think also just being part of something that's bigger than you, think that really, ⁓ it's perspective, but it also just makes you feel so connected to your community. And I think that's something that we need now more than ever, is to have that foundation. like, even if, whether it's donating money or, you know, going to volunteer for a day at a...
Heather (52:20)
Yeah.
perspective.
Jessica Sherman (52:41)
adoption fair for dogs, know, get your dopamine kick there and, and do some good. So I think it's just like finding wherever you can find your happiness, I guess.
Heather (52:53)
Yeah, whatever you're passionate about or what kind of lights you up and you get excited to support, think is definitely what you should follow for sure. Amazing. Well, is there anything else that you want to share? Where can people maybe find you or follow you or all that good stuff?
Jessica Sherman (53:10)
Yeah, I'm super accessible on Instagram. So it's just J. Shermy with a Y. Casting.
Heather (53:17)
Amazing, awesome. Well, and at acauseforentertainment.com we will link everything in the show notes so you guys can check it out. Thank you, Jessica, so much for taking the time to chat with us today. It's been wonderful.
Jessica Sherman (53:29)
Thank you. It's my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Jess (53:31)
All right, that's the show for today, but before we switch back, we want to remind you...
Heather (53:36)
subscribe to the pod, follow us on social, go to our website, get on our mailing list. It really helps us out a lot. We're a new podcast. So please go like and subscribe to all the things it means so much to us. Thanks, you guys.
Jess (53:52)
Yeah,
and give us feedback and stuff. We want to hear from you.
Heather (53:55)
Yeah, let us know what you think, what you want to see or hear on the pod, any ideas or reach out to us. If you've got some tea you want to share, maybe an experience, we might talk about it on the pod.
Jess (54:07)
Alright, see you next time. Thanks for listening to Switching 2. It's hosted and edited by Heather Kate Duncan and Jess Boyer. Original music by Top Flow courtesy of the Pixabay Royalty Free Music Library. Recorded on location in Los Angeles, California. Follow us on social at Switching2Pod. Show notes and transcripts can be found at switching2pod.com.
